Anyone succeeding in increasing T with Kisspeptin while on TRT

[Keepfit1]

I was speaking to a doc the other day who is in to Hormones and peptides , he said he had a lot of patients who increased their T a lot on Kisspeptin, they however were not on TRT. I wondered if anyone one here was using it with success while on TRT. The reason I am interested in this is that to get my counts up to where they need to be on TRT my DHT is too high resulting in hairloss and BPH, I speculated that if Kisspeptin does increase T maybe the DHT increase would be less. Mind you I have hypogonadism which maybe a issue re Kisspeptin.
I posted this here instead of the Peptide section because its more to do with the T than the P.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I was speaking to a doc the other day who is in to Hormones and peptides , he said he had a lot of patients who increased their T a lot on Kisspeptin, they however were not on TRT.

Kisspeptin monotherapy? Please tell us more! Dosage, frequency, timing, and results would be of great interest.

 

[bixt]

I have hypogonadism

my DHT is too high resulting in hairloss and BPH,

So you are saying that you have tested your T and blood tests show it to be low, and yet blood tests show your DHT to be high?

Or are you speculating based on hairloss

 

[Forty2]

I was speaking to a doc the other day who is in to Hormones and peptides , he said he had a lot of patients who increased their T a lot on Kisspeptin, they however were not on TRT. I wondered if anyone one here was using it with success while on TRT. The reason I am interested in this is that to get my counts up to where they need to be on TRT my DHT is too high resulting in hairloss and BPH, I speculated that if Kisspeptin does increase T maybe the DHT increase would be less. Mind you I have hypogonadism which maybe a issue re Kisspeptin.
I posted this here instead of the Peptide section because its more to do with the T than the P.

If I'm not mistaken, male pattern baldness is not caused by elevated DHT, but rather high estrogen and androsterone.

 

[Keepfit1]

Kisspeptin monotherapy? Please tell us more! Dosage, frequency, timing, and results would be of great interest.

I think the other patients were also on CJC + Ipamorelin and maybe a few others like BPC , i consulted the doc to check on his views on me going on the above peptides, he suggested I add in Kisspeptin as his patients were doing well on it, increased T levels and muscle, but the important bit he mentioned is perhaps they were not on TRT, so for us on TRT who knows if it will work?

Dont have info on dose etc yet but plan to buy some and try so will post.

 

[Keepfit1]

If I'm not mistaken, male pattern baldness is not caused by elevated DHT, but rather high estrogen and androsterone.

It’s DHT, I don’t have high E but DHT is 90% up range, I’ve studied hair loss for decades and for most DHT is the cause.

 

[Keepfit1]

So you are saying that you have tested your T and blood tests show it to be low, and yet blood tests show your DHT to be high?

Or are you speculating based on hairloss

No speculation, if I get FT 50-75% up range DHT is 90% and hair out and BPH and PSA up

 

[Forty2]

It’s DHT, I don’t have high E but DHT is 90% up range, I’ve studied hair loss for decades and for most DHT is the cause.

Interestingly, some guys can take high doses of DHT and not lose any hair, yet when their androsterone is elevated, they lose a heap of hair. They say that the reason why 5 alpha reductase inhibitors work is because they also suppress androsterone.

 

[Cataceous]

I was speaking to a doc the other day who is in to Hormones and peptides , he said he had a lot of patients who increased their T a lot on Kisspeptin, they however were not on TRT. I wondered if anyone one here was using it with success while on TRT. The reason I am interested in this is that to get my counts up to where they need to be on TRT my DHT is too high resulting in hairloss and BPH, I speculated that if Kisspeptin does increase T maybe the DHT increase would be less. Mind you I have hypogonadism which maybe a issue re Kisspeptin.
I posted this here instead of the Peptide section because its more to do with the T than the P.

Although speculative, it's possible that taking kisspeptin-10 with TRT could confer benefits that are independent of HPTA effects. The problem with combining kisspeptin with TRT is that you won't overcome HPTA suppression unless you also take a SERM. In other words, even if you stimulate the hypothalamus to produce GnRH, you likely will not overcome the negative feedback of estrogens at the pituitary, and therefore will not reap the benefits of normalizing LH and FSH, let alone increasing testosterone. This also assumes that the reason for TRT is not due a problem with the pituitary. But my impression is that the majority of secondary hypogonadism stems from hypothalamic dysfunction—or other brain-mediated suppression of normal hypothalamic function.

Overall it's an area that needs more research. In the future it may become common practice to add kisspeptin to TRT if there is evidence of systemic suppression. It's not clear how the U.S. will get there given that kisspetin-10 cannot be legally prescribed here. Who's going to spend the millions of dollars to get FDA approval? Perhaps a company would take it on if it turns out to be a viable treatment for secondary hypogonadism.

Is the doctor you talked to U.S.-based? If so how are his patients getting kisspeptin?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am yet to see a single study on the use of injectable kisspeptin with TRT in humans. It is not FDA-approved, and the only data I found comes from a small study done using it alone with a single IV bolus and an 11 hour IV in men with diabetes and low testosterone. Whoever is telling patients that injecting it along with TRT can replace hCG is making up stories. But if anyone has any data to dispute with me, please let me know.


Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2013 Jul;79(1):100-4. doi: 10.1111/cen.12103. Epub 2013 Apr 19.

Exploring the pathophysiology of hypogonadism in men with type 2 diabetes: kisspeptin-10 stimulates serum testosterone and LH secretion in men with type 2 diabetes and mild biochemical hypogonadism

Jyothis T George 1, Johannes D Veldhuis, Manuel Tena-Sempere, Robert P Millar, Richard A Anderson
Affiliations expand
PMID: 23153270 DOI: 10.1111/cen.12103
Abstract
Rationale: Low serum testosterone is commonly observed in men with type 2 diabetes (T2DM), but the neuroendocrine pathophysiology remains to be elucidated.

Objectives: The hypothalamic neuropeptide kisspeptin integrates metabolic signals with the reproductive axis in animal models. We hypothesized that administration of exogenous kisspeptin-10 will restore luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone secretion in hypotestosteronaemic men with T2DM.

Participants: Five hypotestosteronaemic men with T2DM (age 33·6 ± 3 years, BMI 40·6 ± 6·3, total testosterone 8·5 ± 1·0 nmol/l, LH 4·7 ± 0·7 IU/l, HbA1c 7·4±2%, duration of diabetes <5 years) and seven age-matched healthy men. EXPERIMENT 1: Mean LH increased in response to intravenous administration of kisspeptin-10 (0·3 mcg/kg bolus) both in healthy men (5·5 ± 0·8 to 13·9 ± 1·7 IU/l P < 0·001) and in men with T2DM (4·7 ± 0·7 to 10·7 ± 1·2 IU/l P = 0·02) with comparable ΔLH (P = 0·18). EXPERIMENT 2: Baseline 10-min serum sampling for LH and hourly testosterone measurements were performed in four T2DM men over 12 h. An intravenous infusion of kisspeptin-10 (4 mcg/kg/h) was administered for 11 h, 5 days later. There were increases in LH (3·9 ± 0·1 IU/l to 20·7 ± 1·1 IU/l P = 0·03) and testosterone (8·5 ± 1·0 to 11·4 ± 0·9 nmol/l, P = 0·002). LH pulse frequency increased from 0·6 ± 0·1 to 0·9 ± 0 pulses/h (P = 0·05) and pulsatile component of LH secretion from 32·1 ± 8·0 IU/l to 140·2 ± 23·0 IU/l (P = 0·007).

Conclusions: Kisspeptin-10 administration increased LH pulse frequency and LH secretion in hypotestosteronaemic men with T2DM in this proof-of-concept study, with associated increases in serum testosterone. These data suggest a potential novel therapeutic role for kisspeptin agonists in enhancing endogenous testosterone secretion in men with T2DM and central hypogonadism.

 

[Keepfit1]

Although speculative, it's possible that taking kisspeptin-10 with TRT could confer benefits that are independent of HPTA effects. The problem with combining kisspeptin with TRT is that you won't overcome HPTA suppression unless you also take a SERM. In other words, even if you stimulate the hypothalamus to produce GnRH, you likely will not overcome the negative feedback of estrogens at the pituitary, and therefore will not reap the benefits of normalizing LH and FSH, let alone increasing testosterone. This also assumes that the reason for TRT is not due a problem with the pituitary. But my impression is that the majority of secondary hypogonadism stems from hypothalamic dysfunction—or other brain-mediated suppression of normal hypothalamic function.

Overall it's an area that needs more research. In the future it may become common practice to add kisspeptin to TRT if there is evidence of systemic suppression. It's not clear how the U.S. will get there given that kisspetin-10 cannot be legally prescribed here. Who's going to spend the millions of dollars to get FDA approval? Perhaps a company would take it on if it turns out to be a viable treatment for secondary hypogonadism.

Is the doctor you talked to U.S.-based? If so how are his patients getting kisspeptin?

I share your scepticism, the doc is in LA , not sure how is patients are getting it, I bought some and am going to try it to see, will post results when ready

 

[mcs]

Just came across this YT video:

 

[mcs]

Kisspeptin-10

Kisspeptin acts to control hormone secretion as it relates to reproduction. Kisspeptin can influence testosterone levels and sex-related behaviors like drive and motivation. Research also suggests it ...

www.peptidesciences.com

 

[mcs]

I share your scepticism, the doc is in LA , not sure how is patients are getting it, I bought some and am going to try it to see, will post results when ready

Please share the doc's contact info. PM me, if you wish not to post here.

 

[Steve78]

My experience with kisspeptin for a month was it did nothing to my LH or total testosterone levels…

 

[mcs]

My levels increased 40% after a month on 100mcg of KS-10 from Peptide Sciences. I am now doubling the dose to see if I can increase it further. You can read about it on my previous post here.

 

[Keepfit1]

My levels increased 40% after a month on 100mcg of KS-10 from Peptide Sciences. I am now doubling the dose to see if I can increase it further. You can read about it on my previous post here.

were you on Testosterone when you go the 40% increase

 

[Keepfit1]

My experience with kisspeptin for a month was it did nothing to my LH or total testosterone levels…

were you on testosterone at the time

 

[mcs]

were you on testosterone at the time

Nope.

 

[Keepfit1]

My experience with kisspeptin for a month was it did nothing to my LH or total testosterone levels…

were you on T when taking Kisspeptin