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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
“High-Normal T”
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<blockquote data-quote="Cataceous" data-source="post: 249583" data-attributes="member: 38109"><p>In the context of TRT, 200 mg TC/week qualifies as a giant dose. That's about double the top physiological production rate. No doubt it's a baby dose in the world of steroid abuse.</p><p></p><p>In the absence of acute side effects the concern is what happens with integrated exposure. This is what [USER=38590]@readalot[/USER] was exploring. There's nothing definitive, but the animal models hint at the possibility of problems when exposure goes from years to decades. Average guys on TRT should be discouraged from being guinea pigs in such experiments.</p><p></p><p>The large majority of men on TRT do not have a legitimate medical need to dose more than 100 mg TC/week. The evidence shows that the essential improvements occur when going from hypogonadal to normal. Higher doses do not improve sexual function and libido. While there can be further improvements in musculature and body composition, they may be accompanied by various side effects of excess. The "what if" scenarios about outliers are simply a backdoor way to normalize excessive dosing. "What if it takes 140 mg for John Doe to feel good?" There's this implication that if it takes 140 mg for someone to say he feels better then this dose level should be considered in the normal range. In reality there's something unusual going on when someone actually needs this much testosterone. Hyper-metabolizers? Long CAG repeats? Perhaps—but these few do not define TRT for the majority.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The big problem with this is the assumption that testosterone alone is going to make you feel like you're 26. Nope. If you're hypogonadal and get back to normal levels—even for a healthy 66-year-old—then you're probably going to feel better. So go a bit further and raise levels to 650 ng/dL, about average for a young guy. There may be some incremental improvements, but nothing like just getting to normal. Go up even higher if you want, but you're still not going to feel 26—and you might start to feel worse as your hormonal balance is upset.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To me this just emphasizes the need to focus on free testosterone. High total testosterone can easily be driven by elevated SHBG. You can divorce yourself from falling standards by using older data and the Vermeulen calculation. As I recall, the range for healthy young men was something like 8-22 ng/dL. If the guy with a total testosterone of 1,130 ng/dL had SHBG of 50 nMol/L then his free testosterone would be around the top of the normal range and not unhealthy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cataceous, post: 249583, member: 38109"] In the context of TRT, 200 mg TC/week qualifies as a giant dose. That's about double the top physiological production rate. No doubt it's a baby dose in the world of steroid abuse. In the absence of acute side effects the concern is what happens with integrated exposure. This is what [USER=38590]@readalot[/USER] was exploring. There's nothing definitive, but the animal models hint at the possibility of problems when exposure goes from years to decades. Average guys on TRT should be discouraged from being guinea pigs in such experiments. The large majority of men on TRT do not have a legitimate medical need to dose more than 100 mg TC/week. The evidence shows that the essential improvements occur when going from hypogonadal to normal. Higher doses do not improve sexual function and libido. While there can be further improvements in musculature and body composition, they may be accompanied by various side effects of excess. The "what if" scenarios about outliers are simply a backdoor way to normalize excessive dosing. "What if it takes 140 mg for John Doe to feel good?" There's this implication that if it takes 140 mg for someone to say he feels better then this dose level should be considered in the normal range. In reality there's something unusual going on when someone actually needs this much testosterone. Hyper-metabolizers? Long CAG repeats? Perhaps—but these few do not define TRT for the majority. The big problem with this is the assumption that testosterone alone is going to make you feel like you're 26. Nope. If you're hypogonadal and get back to normal levels—even for a healthy 66-year-old—then you're probably going to feel better. So go a bit further and raise levels to 650 ng/dL, about average for a young guy. There may be some incremental improvements, but nothing like just getting to normal. Go up even higher if you want, but you're still not going to feel 26—and you might start to feel worse as your hormonal balance is upset. To me this just emphasizes the need to focus on free testosterone. High total testosterone can easily be driven by elevated SHBG. You can divorce yourself from falling standards by using older data and the Vermeulen calculation. As I recall, the range for healthy young men was something like 8-22 ng/dL. If the guy with a total testosterone of 1,130 ng/dL had SHBG of 50 nMol/L then his free testosterone would be around the top of the normal range and not unhealthy. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
“High-Normal T”
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