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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
“High-Normal T”
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<blockquote data-quote="BigTex" data-source="post: 249395" data-attributes="member: 43589"><p>I don't think 800-950 is a target at all, as you said 85% seem to do well here. Would they do better at a lower level? Since we don't know that the 85% would have be </p><p>asymptomatic at 500-600, we can't assume that a lower dose would have caused that. As Dr. Lipshultz advised, always start out on the low end and titrate to the point there are no my symptoms and no unhealthy side effects. This is very individual and seems like a logical approach. I would bet money that Defy uses this exactly approach. Any clinic that is using 800-950 as a target IMHO is taking the wrong approach. That to me is no different from starting everyone on on 150mg of test cypionate every 7 days. Some do well on that and some have unwanted side effects. Again, I have no idea how Defy prescribes TRT but I would think they base their prescription on a very individual basis. </p><p></p><p>Myself, I hit ~950 using 40mg,every 5 days. Most are prescribed more than that, I went in at 320 and was diagnosed as androgen deficient and had all of the common symptoms In my case, I had unhealthy side effects with a low dose that most don't even react to. I had to completely stop to get rid of the sides. Were the symptoms gone at 950? Absolutely, but the unhealthy health effects were not. So where do I go from here.....20mg every 5 days? Or try a different ester? I have dropped down to 400 and 500 and felt like crap. Should I just get over it because the numbers are more "normal"? When medicine starts taking that approach, I will have to go back to self medication.</p><p></p><p>Are youthful levels too low (Reference Range: 250-827 ng/dL- Quest)? Not long ago it was higher that than Seems youthful have fallen dramatically in the last 50 years. That has been shown to be very unhealthy yet the FDA keeps lowing the bar on the high end. What happens when you base your dosing off a number and guys still have symptoms? Isn't it best to treat symptoms and not worry about numbers? The FDA abstractly determines that only people with less that 300 have low T and will have low T symptoms. Therefore, insurance won't cover the guy who has a 400 level but the same symptoms as a guy who has a level of 100. Yea, I know we are trying to stop any kind of abuse but in the process are we not throwing the 400 level, symptomatic hypogonadal guys under the bus and telling them their problem can't exist because that number is too high? What does a doctor do, send them home and tell them to go UG. This seems to be a big problem in this industry that we treat numbers and not symptoms. The number is irrelevant high or low if you still have symptoms.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BigTex, post: 249395, member: 43589"] I don't think 800-950 is a target at all, as you said 85% seem to do well here. Would they do better at a lower level? Since we don't know that the 85% would have be asymptomatic at 500-600, we can't assume that a lower dose would have caused that. As Dr. Lipshultz advised, always start out on the low end and titrate to the point there are no my symptoms and no unhealthy side effects. This is very individual and seems like a logical approach. I would bet money that Defy uses this exactly approach. Any clinic that is using 800-950 as a target IMHO is taking the wrong approach. That to me is no different from starting everyone on on 150mg of test cypionate every 7 days. Some do well on that and some have unwanted side effects. Again, I have no idea how Defy prescribes TRT but I would think they base their prescription on a very individual basis. Myself, I hit ~950 using 40mg,every 5 days. Most are prescribed more than that, I went in at 320 and was diagnosed as androgen deficient and had all of the common symptoms In my case, I had unhealthy side effects with a low dose that most don't even react to. I had to completely stop to get rid of the sides. Were the symptoms gone at 950? Absolutely, but the unhealthy health effects were not. So where do I go from here.....20mg every 5 days? Or try a different ester? I have dropped down to 400 and 500 and felt like crap. Should I just get over it because the numbers are more "normal"? When medicine starts taking that approach, I will have to go back to self medication. Are youthful levels too low (Reference Range: 250-827 ng/dL- Quest)? Not long ago it was higher that than Seems youthful have fallen dramatically in the last 50 years. That has been shown to be very unhealthy yet the FDA keeps lowing the bar on the high end. What happens when you base your dosing off a number and guys still have symptoms? Isn't it best to treat symptoms and not worry about numbers? The FDA abstractly determines that only people with less that 300 have low T and will have low T symptoms. Therefore, insurance won't cover the guy who has a 400 level but the same symptoms as a guy who has a level of 100. Yea, I know we are trying to stop any kind of abuse but in the process are we not throwing the 400 level, symptomatic hypogonadal guys under the bus and telling them their problem can't exist because that number is too high? What does a doctor do, send them home and tell them to go UG. This seems to be a big problem in this industry that we treat numbers and not symptoms. The number is irrelevant high or low if you still have symptoms. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
“High-Normal T”
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