Do low SHBG/fast metabolizers/excreaters get full benefits from their dose?

PAUL-E · Sep 7, 2016

A question I had do low SHBG guys/fast metabolizers/excreaters get full benefits from their dose since they require higher doses to achieve the same results?
.
example is one guy can get total test numbers 700 with 100mg of testosterone where it might take a fast metabolizer 180mg of testosterone with more frequent injections to achieve the same result.
.
is a given common dose less effective(because its not in the system as long) requiring a higher and/or more frequent dose/dosing to be effective?
.
I'm asking more in regards to Nandrolone say a common therapeutic dose is around 100MG does that mean that dose might be less effective for a low SHBG guy/fast metabolizers/excreaters and would a higher dose yield more therapeutic relief?

CoastWatcher · Sep 7, 2016

PAUL-E said:
A question I had do low SHBG guys/fast metabolizers/excreaters get full benefits from their dose since they require higher doses to achieve the same results?
.
example is one guy can get total test numbers 700 with 100mg of testosterone where it might take a fast metabolizer 180mg of testosterone with more frequent injections to achieve the same result.
.
is a given common dose less effective(because its not in the system as long) requiring a higher and/or more frequent dose/dosing to be effective?
.
I'm asking more in regards to Nandrolone say a common therapeutic dose is around 100MG does that mean that dose might be less effective for a low SHBG guy/fast metabolizers/excreaters and would a higher dose yield more therapeutic relief?

As a low SHBG man, I have found, contrary to what you wrote, that while I certainly need to inject more frequently (I inject on a daily basis), I have found that I actually require less total testosterone over the course of the week in order to sustain a therapeutic serum level. When on a 3.5 day schedule I was injecting 120mg of testosterone weekly. I now inject 16mg every day and still maintain a total testosterone reading at 950. For me, less is more. According to my doctor that's the pattern she sees with her other patients injecting more than twice a week. I believe Dr. Saya has posted here on the same point with the same observation.

PAUL-E · Sep 8, 2016

Perhaps the key is in more frequent injections in order to stay more consistent (less of a hormonal roller coaster) since it seems to get cleared out faster and or is not in the system as long regardless of the half life. It's just looking at my protocol and lab work I'm not impressed and feel like my body's getting rid of the medication too fast https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...T-Latest-labs-new-protocol-unexpected-results

I really don't want to inject more than 3x a week but I'm considering a EOD schedule, no way could I do ED like you

Thanks

CoastWatcher · Sep 8, 2016

PAUL-E said:
Perhaps the key is in more frequent injections in order to stay more consistent (less of a hormonal roller coaster) since it seems to get cleared out faster and or is not in the system as long regardless of the half life. It's just looking at my protocol and lab work I'm not impressed and feel like my body's getting rid of the medication too fast https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...T-Latest-labs-new-protocol-unexpected-results

I really don't want to inject more than 3x a week but I'm considering a EOD schedule, no way could I do ED like you

Thanks

A number of members feel as you do: they flatly reject the idea of daily injections. I can say that in 14 months on a daily schedule I have not missed a shot (including a fair bit of international travel). I'm not that virtuous, I just want to feel good. The daily protocol made a world of difference and that keeps me focused and compliant.

All the best - keep us posted.

PAUL-E · Sep 8, 2016

Since I hate needles and started out with the 1" 23ga harpoons 2x a week and now use 1/2" 29ga insulin syringes and went to 3x a week its made a world of difference. Maybe its just one uncomfortable step after another until you become ok with it maybe one day I'll get there.
Thanks

maxadvance · Sep 8, 2016

I'm with Coast, no need for higher dose to achieve desired result.

Vince Carter · Sep 8, 2016

I moved to daily last week. With some daily HCG in the past and multiple GHRP2/6 injections, I knew that I could tolerate and stay compliant on a daily cyp schedule. But, back when I was on E3.5D, I might have said the same thing, that daily would be intrusive and a pain. But my progression was E3.5D, to MWF, to EOD, and now daily.

CoastWatcher · Sep 8, 2016

Vince Carter said:
I moved to daily last week. With some daily HCG in the past and multiple GHRP2/6 injections, I knew that I could tolerate and stay compliant on a daily cyp schedule. But, back when I was on E3.5D, I might have said the same thing, that daily would be intrusive and a pain. But my progression was E3.5D, to MWF, to EOD, and now daily.

Vince Carter raised a good point. The thought/sound of daily injections, as opposed to the reality of them, may be what so many find off-putting. In my case, I wanted to avoid an AI and that was enough to make the initial decision. The reality is much more low-key than might be imagined.

PAUL-E · Sep 9, 2016

Vince Carter said:
my progression was E3.5D, to MWF, to EOD, and now daily.

I started out 2x a week then went to 3x MWF and have been considering going to EOD and had a couple of questions
What was your dose going from MWF to EOD?
Did it help raise testosterone and or lower Estrogen?
What rotation pattern do you guys use for injection sites?
Did it make a difference in how you feel and morning wood/sexual function?
Have you tried Testosterone Propionate if so any difference?

CoastWatcher · Sep 9, 2016

In respect to propionate, Nelson has commented that it is an extremely painful form of testosterone to inject.

PAUL-E · Sep 9, 2016

CoastWatcher said:
In respect to propionate, both Nelson has commented that it is an extremely painful form of testosterone to inject.

I've heard that as well but thought it was due to most using UG labs I seen empower carries it and thought it might not be as bad.

Vince Carter · Sep 9, 2016

PAUL-E said:
I started out 2x a week then went to 3x MWF and have been considering going to EOD and had a couple of questions
What was your dose going from MWF to EOD?
Did it help raise testosterone and or lower Estrogen?
What rotation pattern do you guys use for injection sites?
Did it make a difference in how you feel and morning wood/sexual function?
Have you tried Testosterone Propionate if so any difference?

There's I think too many variable there for most any of us to answer those, between pregnenolone, DHEA, Anastrozole, too many things I had coming and going to say yes or no, too.
One main thing I did the 50mg M/W/F and my Sunday trough was getting rough, I was entering that low T status and was feeling rather cruddy til I could get that next shot Monday morning. So changing to EOD did in fact smooth that out for me, which I stayed with 50mg EOD. My SHBG has always been mid/low teens so I was going through it rather quickly.

PAUL-E · Sep 9, 2016

To sum it up guys with low SHBG need no inject more frequently to take full advantage of there medication and feel there best. for now I'm going to stick with the MWF schedule and focus on fat loss I'm just not ready for EOD yet.

Thanks guys!

Speed · Sep 18, 2016

ED is easier than EOD. Simple as that !!!

When I wake up, I know that I need to brush my teeth and also to inject. They are always preloded with me and process takes only 5 sec. So, saying that ED is hard, I just can't understand.

When I was doing e3.5 d , I needed to have reminder on my phone to know when to inject.

Also, I fixed my E2 problems, Libido. ED, brainfog with this protocol. T is high, e2 is in the range. No ****ING AI

Vince · Sep 18, 2016

Speed said:
ED is easier than EOD. Simple as that !!!

When I wake up, I know that I need to brush my teeth and also to inject. They are always preloded with me and process takes only 5 sec. So, saying that ED is hard, I just can't understand.

When I was doing e3.5 d , I needed to have reminder on my phone to know when to inject.

Also, I fixed my E2 problems, Libido. ED, brainfog with this protocol. T is high, e2 is in the range. No ****ING AI

I'm one who doesn't like injecting every day, but I really like injecting every 3 1/2 days and no AI.

It shows are different we all are.

hardrlz · Sep 29, 2016

Just tried propionate 50 mg everyday IM the first day, then subq, no difference at all again for 4 days already... SHBG level last measured at 9 before test. This condition is straight f*cked up seriously i feel like i am so screwed healthwise ... i have tried everything for this low SHBG shit and nothing

Right now i am even taking a protocol of TUDCA, Inositol, Choline, Silymarin, NAC, Vit C and MSM like one of the posters on this board suggested and 3 weeks into it still nothing. Worst thing ever being unable to cure this condition and I am only 24, been like that since puberty FML ....

PAUL-E · Sep 29, 2016

sorry for the hard times, just a thought but 50mg of test prop ED seems like a high dose and might lead to more estrogen conversion which some men are more sensitive to.

Vince Carter · Sep 29, 2016

Why Proponate over Cyp? a two day half-life might be a factor.

Dr Justin Saya MD · Sep 29, 2016

Agree with above.

50mg of T prop every day is too much (with very rare exception). That is 350mg weekly, also keep in mind that propionate is a smaller (lighter) ester and due to lower carbon weight delivers MORE testosterone "mg per mg" so to speak than longer esters such as T enanthate and T cypionate.

For very low SHBG levels, a longer-acting ester like cypionate on a daily basis would be far preferred.

Country23030 · Sep 19, 2017

Vince said:
I'm one who doesn't like injecting every day, but I really like injecting every 3 1/2 days and no AI. It shows are different we all are.

Vince, I thought you were injecting ED. Is that a recent change or am I confused?

Do low SHBG/fast metabolizers/excreaters get full benefits from their dose?

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