Dr. Mark Gordon question...

I've read a little about him and his work with many veterans suffering from traumatic brain injuries. I've read where he says he starts them off with 60mg a week doses. He says he uses such low dosage amounts so he doesn't completely shut down their own system. Is this really possible? I thought once someone took any amount of exogenous testosterone it shut down their own production? It's interesting to consider his apparent success with so many men suffering from TBI's with such low dosage amounts. Just curious as to anyone with knowledge of Dr Gordon and his strategy to give just enough testosterone while not completely shutting down the bodies own production.

Even 60 mg a week is going to shut you down - although I suppose one could argue that it wont shut you down as "hard" as say 200 mg a week would. Does he mention anything about using HCG to help keep the testes functioning?

That said, If he is helping vets with traumatic brain injuries and having success with his methods, then my sincere compliments to him! We need more doctors finding ways to help our injured vets.

Everyone is different in terms of when and how much being shutdown.
Many people will shutdown after 10-12 weeks on any dose.
The only way to know is to run labs for lh.
I don't know if the body cares how much testosterone in given externally but I don't think so but it maybe possible.

One interesting thing I've noticed Dr. Gordon and his patients say is they use a testosterone blend. Maybe he's using a propionate/cypionate blend. If so, maybe his 60mg has more usable testosterone than the typical all cypionate dose.

Negative feedback loop will shut down Endo E no matter how you play it or what ester is being used. I'd like to see more of how he thinks he can supplement testosterone

There is an LEF article where he is quoted as saying:

"Gordon explains that conventional medical dosage for testosterone is at 200-300 milligrams per week, which he has shown is far too high! "For example, a typical 25-35 year old male naturally generates 4-10 milligrams per day, or 60 milligrams per week. Using supraphysiological dosages of testosterone (as military doctors are doing) can have significant side-effects if not monitored closely. We can achieve similar benefits at one-quarter the dose without the risk factors."

HarryCat said:

There is an LEF article where he is quoted as saying:

"Gordon explains that conventional medical dosage for testosterone is at 200-300 milligrams per week, which he has shown is far too high! "For example, a typical 25-35 year old male naturally generates 4-10 milligrams per day, or 60 milligrams per week. Using supraphysiological dosages of testosterone (as military doctors are doing) can have significant side-effects if not monitored closely. We can achieve similar benefits at one-quarter the dose without the risk factors."

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Great article - Thank you for posting it!

HarryCat said:

There is an LEF article where he is quoted as saying:

"Gordon explains that conventional medical dosage for testosterone is at 200-300 milligrams per week, which he has shown is far too high! "For example, a typical 25-35 year old male naturally generates 4-10 milligrams per day, or 60 milligrams per week. Using supraphysiological dosages of testosterone (as military doctors are doing) can have significant side-effects if not monitored closely. We can achieve similar benefits at one-quarter the dose without the risk factors."

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Anyone using 60mg a week is going to be in a clinically low T state, he's talking one extreme and going in the opposite direction to another extreme. I can't see where he's gotten this HRT credential because he sounds like he's full of "it".

Vince Carter said:

Anyone using 60mg a week is going to be in a clinically low T state, he's talking one extreme and going in the opposite direction to another extreme. I can't see where he's gotten this HRT credential because he sounds like he's full of "it".

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How do you define "clinically low T state"? Just curious.

I'd like to know what's in his testosterone "blend"

HarryCat said:

How do you define "clinically low T state"? Just curious.

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Volunteer to be the first one on this forum on 60mg/week and come back with 6 week trough labs and defend the Dr's position. You won't do it. And that's the whole point.

Vince Carter said:

Volunteer to be the first one on this forum on 60mg/week and come back with 6 week trough labs and defend the Dr's position. You won't do it. And that's the whole point.

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Actually I'm the wrong person to do that experiment. When I stop TRT entirely my total T drops to about 200 or less and I don't feel much different than when my total T is over 800.

I'm actually intrigued by the idea of a low dose like 50-60mg/week. My doc suspects my androgen receptors get overwhelmed when my total T gets high.

I've read that 100mg of test cyp yields about 70mg of usable testosterone. I think test propionate yields something like 86mg of usable test per 100mg. Dr. Gordon refers to using a testosterone blend. So it might not be an apples to apples comparison between what most of us are using and what he is using and prescribing. I'd like to know what his "blend" consists of.

jth0524 said:

I'd like to know what his "blend" consists of.

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There aren't too many things it can be...it's either a Cyp/Prop compounded blend, or it could be a brand name variant...Sustanon 250, etc.

Id think that the only way to even try and make a low cumulative dose of 60mg would be to shoot daily.

I am in NP school and I am interested in helping veterans with mood disorders who have low testosterone. However, I just don't see how 60mg per week isn't going to shut you down and also yield therapeutic doses of testosterone, but I am interested in learning.

Just a guess here, but since the Dr is working with folks that have had massive injuries, perhaps he wants to start on the low side and gradually move up as-needed. Also remember that most of his patients are already low or very "low T" already due to their injuries so 60 mg per week would be an upgrade for them.

I know I felt better (on gels) from 214 > 580 but it's still not fantastic and most would say it's (much) less than ideal. I would say the same thing with this Dr's thoery on treatment.
I'm surprised that there's this much backing for his work, maybe its a mere curiosity on ya'lls part but it's contrary to everything on ExcelMale, et al..,

Vince Carter said:

I know I felt better (on gels) from 214 > 580 but it's still not fantastic and most would say it's (much) less than ideal. I would say the same thing with this Dr's thoery on treatment.
I'm surprised that there's this much backing for his work, maybe its a mere curiosity on ya'lls part but it's contrary to everything on ExcelMale, et al..,

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Well for me it is the fact that I'm doing worse now that my total T is over 800 than I did before starting TRT when my total T was 200. My body doesn't respond well to the traditional approach.

Vince Carter said:

I know I felt better (on gels) from 214 > 580 but it's still not fantastic and most would say it's (much) less than ideal. I would say the same thing with this Dr's thoery on treatment.
I'm surprised that there's this much backing for his work, maybe its a mere curiosity on ya'lls part but it's contrary to everything on ExcelMale, et al..,

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I am just impressed that he has a treatment for traumatic brain injuries that seems to be helping a lot of people, including veterans, etc...But that doesn't mean that I would suggest that regular (non traumatic brain injury) guys with low T adopt his particular methodology. So, yes, curiosity is an accurate description in my case.