Hashimotos Hypothyroid and TRT, Any One Else Suffering?

J.James.A · Feb 2, 2016

Hello ppl, it's been a while since I last posted here and a few things have changed. I stopped TRT, the Dr who was treating me wasn't okay with me injecting myself and when I asked for an inhibitor she gave me DIM pills so I decided to stop going to her and I'm basically on step 1 again.

This whole time I didn't even think about my Hashimotos or how TRT would/could effect it. I been googling it and it's all over the place. I have read about ppl struggling to people almost "cured" and now I'm just so full of questions it's intimidating. So far that I know my thyroid levels are in normal range, I'm going to call my Dr and ask for my results, I took a blood test a few weeks ago but my general mood sucks. Irritability, sometimes low depression, energy sucks, bad sleeping patterns all the same feeling I've had for a while and honestly I'm so sick and tired of being sick and tired lol.

My out of town Dr is cool with me injection myself but since he's not too into hormones he was kinda stand offish when we talked about hgc and an inhibitor but was also kinda like "that's your call and we can work on it". A little reassuring but kinda intimidating because I'm not a Dr lol. He was the first to bring up T, after going to him because I felt my Thyroid was off we tested it and sure enough my antibodies and levels where off so we went up on the dosage. He told me that in 3-4 months if I'm not feeling better we might have to look into my T.

Another Dr I found locally (the one I stopped going to) tested my T after telling her what the out of town Dr said and found it on the lower side. Now I'm back with my out of town Dr and want to pursue the T therapy but I'm afraid I will be opening a new can of worms. It's been a rough ride trying to get the Hashi under control and now adding another type of hormone therapy only scares me. I'm from a small town so good hormone Drs are hard to find if any. I don't want to be another nightmare story with my body going full crazy mode trying to handle 2 real struggles at once!

Anyone here suffer from Hashi and on TRT? Any Hypos and going through TRT? What should I look for, what should I watch out for? Guys I have so many questions and worries and every where I look it feels like I'm running a race in a maze. Dead end after dead end, questions after questions.

My dream would be to get on TRT and watch everything fall into place and instead of running into problems it would unscrambling this hormone rubix cube of mine. I can only dream at this point.

I forgot to mention I'm on 125 levothyroxine, both Drs that seen me and treated me agreed that my body does convert it into T3 on it's own, or so that's what it did before but I might try Nature thyroid anyways. A T4 with a bit of T3 medication, Armour might have too much T3 for me.

Any one have any light for my dark tunnel?

ERO · Feb 2, 2016

There are some Thyroid experts here on the board, and if you are in the USA, I would get a consult with Defy Medical. You need a new doctor that knows TRT and thyroid issues and Defy fills the bill on both. They have great prices and they don't hard-sell you on treatments you don't need, either.

CoastWatcher · Feb 2, 2016

You stopped TRT cold? Did you discuss with your doctor the fact that you'd wind up with alarmingly depressed testosterone levels? You need a doctor you can trust who understands the interplay of testosterone and every other hormone in the body. You're all over the place. Do you have any bloodwork to post?

J.James.A · Feb 3, 2016

ERO said:
There are some Thyroid experts here on the board, and if you are in the USA, I would get a consult with Defy Medical. You need a new doctor that knows TRT and thyroid issues and Defy fills the bill on both. They have great prices and they don't hard-sell you on treatments you don't need, either.

Someone has mentioned them before to me. I think I will call them and see how they go about working with ones own DR. I live in a small Texas town so I will need to call them first and then show my Dr their info. I don't know how he will react to over the phone appointments. I mean I should let him know what my plans would be no?

CoastWatcher said:
You stopped TRT cold? Did you discuss with your doctor the fact that you'd wind up with alarmingly depressed testosterone levels? You need a doctor you can trust who understands the interplay of testosterone and every other hormone in the body. You're all over the place. Do you have any bloodwork to post?

I had only taken 2 dosages, I wasn't on it for very long at all. The thing is that when she found my low T she also said my E was a tiny bit high so she said that my body already converts more T to E so when I start the therapy I will have to take something to try and stop that. Only problem is she's a Bio T rep and her inhibitor was that DIM compressed veggie pills and wasn't into a real inhibitor. Also when I told her I wanted hcg she gave me a shot but it also had b12, I think she thought I wanted to be on that hcg type diet? Well the night of my first dosage (150 and a hcg plus b12 shot) I had 2 really bad panic attacks. I made a thread about that night here. She was more into the Bio T, hell every hormone DR around here is all about Bio T. I can't afford $600+ every 3-5 months and I would like to get my body going and stable before committing to one big dosage for that long of a time.

I know I have a thyroid problem so treating my low T isn't going to be as easy as others.

Vince Carter · Feb 3, 2016

Not to shove defy but I can't see any reason that you're staying with the care you're getting, I don't see that it's working or working out, for you.

J.James.A · Feb 3, 2016

Vince Carter said:
Not to shove defy but I can't see any reason that you're staying with the care you're getting, I don't see that it's working or working out, for you.

I don't see it as pushing. It's just that I'm not use to over the phone consultations and I'm more comfortable seeing the Dr when something is up. I think the way Defy is doing their business is going to be the future but it's still a bit nerve wrecking lol. It's something new. Also when I google Defy I get a huge results traced back to this site and I also see them advertising here so I kinda guess if maybe it might be a bit biased?
I'm not claiming it's the offices site lol just kinda pointing out something I noticed lol.

ERO · Feb 3, 2016

Think of this analogy: Your current doctor is pretty much clueless, yet you WANT to keep working with him because he is local. If you took your car to a local mechanic and he consistently failed to properly repair your car would you keep going to him until your car stopped running altogether, or would you get a new mechanic?

Vince Carter · Feb 3, 2016

J.James.A said:
I don't see it as pushing. It's just that I'm not use to over the phone consultations and I'm more comfortable seeing the Dr when something is up. I think the way Defy is doing their business is going to be the future but it's still a bit nerve wrecking lol. It's something new. Also when I google Defy I get a huge results traced back to this site and I also see them advertising here so I kinda guess if maybe it might be a bit biased?
I'm not claiming it's the offices site lol just kinda pointing out something I noticed lol.

The two aren't linked, most/many of us are patients and only put forth the care that we've received after having situations similar to yours. The Drs and staff at Defy are absolutely involved in our discussions but one isn't married to the other if that makes sense.

Vince · Feb 3, 2016

Most gluten tests fail those with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism
Gluten intolerance is not as straightforward as once believed. Many people test negative for gluten intolerance when, in fact, they have celiac disease or should be on a gluten-free diet. This is because standard tests are incomplete and fail to account for gluten cross-reactivity.
This can be disastrous for the person with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. A number of studies have established a link between celiac disease, gluten intolerance, and Hashimoto's. Considering Hashimoto's is the cause of hypothyroidism for 90 percent of Americans, a gluten-free diet is imperative for thyroid management.
Fortunately, revolutionary breakthroughs in gluten testing are now available from Cyrex Labs. Cyrex tests for immune reactions to 12 different compounds of the gluten protein, foods the body mistakes for gluten, and foods to which many are sensitive.

People with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism can react to 12 different components of wheat
Wheat is made up of more than 100 different components that can cause an immune reaction in people. Cyrex Labs used extensive research to pinpoint the 12 most common and screens for an immune reaction to one or more of them. These include peptides, proteins, and enzymes associated with wheat.
Until now, testing for gluten intolerance has only been against one of those components, alpha gliadin. This means untold numbers of people with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism have been told by their doctors it is ok for them to eat wheat.
This new test catches a gluten intolerance in the patient with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism who reacts to a component other than alpha gliadin.
Testing for foods that cross-react with gluten
It's frustrating for both the practitioner and the Hashimoto's hypothyroidism patient when a gluten-free diet fails to help manage an autoimmune thyroid condition. In fact, studies show that many people with celiac disease don't recover gut health on a gluten-free diet. Research by scientists at Cyrex shows this may be due to cross-reactivity and food sensitivities.
Cross-reactivity is a situation in which the body mistakes another food for gluten and reacts accordingly, causing symptoms of gluten intolerance. Cyrex Labs tests for foods that may cross-react with gluten and for foods that are most often the source of sensitivities.
Oats and yeast cross-react with gluten, as does dairy, which has a structure that closely resembles that of gluten. In fact, 50 percent of people who are sensitive to gluten are also sensitive to dairy. A person with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism may need to give up dairy and other foods to manage the autoimmune condition.
Coffee cross-reacts with gluten in many people
Cyrex researchers were surprised to find coffee has the highest rate of cross-reactivity with gluten. In other words, some people's immune systems mistake coffee for gluten, triggering a reaction. This test informs the Hashimoto's hypothyroidism patient whether she needs to give up coffee to prevent gluten cross-reactivity.
The most common foods the gluten-free person may need to avoid:
Cow dairy
American cheese
Chocolate
Sesame
Hemp
Rye
Barley
Polish wheat
Buckwheat
Sorghum
Millet
Spelt
Amaranth
Quinoa
Yeast
Tapioca
Oats
Coffee
Corn
Rice
Potato
This panel can help explain why people with celiac disease or a gluten intolerance still react to foods after going gluten-free and even dairy-free.
Gluten linked to 55 diseases, including Hashimoto's hypothyroidism
Gluten has been linked in studies to 55 diseases so far, most of them autoimmune. Gluten intolerance is strongly linked with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. The effect of gluten on brain and nervous tissue is significantly worse and more far-reaching than researchers once thought. Yet, due to poor lab testing and general misinformation, many people continue to eat gluten, unaware it is harming them.
Thanks to more advanced testing, we can now better catch celiac disease and gluten intolerance and go beyond a gluten-free diet to restore health.

Vince · Feb 3, 2016

Do you or anyone you know have Hashimoto's? If you supplement with vitamin D, have you noticed any changes?

Hashimoto's and Vitamin D Deficiency
Fact or Myth: Over 90% of Hashimoto's patients are Vitamin D Deficient. Hashimoto's Autoimmune Thyroiditis causes these lo...

J.James.A · Feb 3, 2016

Vince said:
Most gluten tests fail those with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism
Gluten intolerance is not as straightforward as once believed. Many people test negative for gluten intolerance when, in fact, they have celiac disease or should be on a gluten-free diet. This is because standard tests are incomplete and fail to account for gluten cross-reactivity.
This can be disastrous for the person with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. A number of studies have established a link between celiac disease, gluten intolerance, and Hashimoto's. Considering Hashimoto's is the cause of hypothyroidism for 90 percent of Americans, a gluten-free diet is imperative for thyroid management.
Fortunately, revolutionary breakthroughs in gluten testing are now available from Cyrex Labs. Cyrex tests for immune reactions to 12 different compounds of the gluten protein, foods the body mistakes for gluten, and foods to which many are sensitive.

People with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism can react to 12 different components of wheat
Wheat is made up of more than 100 different components that can cause an immune reaction in people. Cyrex Labs used extensive research to pinpoint the 12 most common and screens for an immune reaction to one or more of them. These include peptides, proteins, and enzymes associated with wheat.
Until now, testing for gluten intolerance has only been against one of those components, alpha gliadin. This means untold numbers of people with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism have been told by their doctors it is ok for them to eat wheat.
This new test catches a gluten intolerance in the patient with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism who reacts to a component other than alpha gliadin.
Testing for foods that cross-react with gluten
It's frustrating for both the practitioner and the Hashimoto's hypothyroidism patient when a gluten-free diet fails to help manage an autoimmune thyroid condition. In fact, studies show that many people with celiac disease don't recover gut health on a gluten-free diet. Research by scientists at Cyrex shows this may be due to cross-reactivity and food sensitivities.
Cross-reactivity is a situation in which the body mistakes another food for gluten and reacts accordingly, causing symptoms of gluten intolerance. Cyrex Labs tests for foods that may cross-react with gluten and for foods that are most often the source of sensitivities.
Oats and yeast cross-react with gluten, as does dairy, which has a structure that closely resembles that of gluten. In fact, 50 percent of people who are sensitive to gluten are also sensitive to dairy. A person with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism may need to give up dairy and other foods to manage the autoimmune condition.
Coffee cross-reacts with gluten in many people
Cyrex researchers were surprised to find coffee has the highest rate of cross-reactivity with gluten. In other words, some people's immune systems mistake coffee for gluten, triggering a reaction. This test informs the Hashimoto's hypothyroidism patient whether she needs to give up coffee to prevent gluten cross-reactivity.
The most common foods the gluten-free person may need to avoid:
Cow dairy
American cheese
Chocolate
Sesame
Hemp
Rye
Barley
Polish wheat
Buckwheat
Sorghum
Millet
Spelt
Amaranth
Quinoa
Yeast
Tapioca
Oats
Coffee
Corn
Rice
Potato
This panel can help explain why people with celiac disease or a gluten intolerance still react to foods after going gluten-free and even dairy-free.
Gluten linked to 55 diseases, including Hashimoto's hypothyroidism
Gluten has been linked in studies to 55 diseases so far, most of them autoimmune. Gluten intolerance is strongly linked with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. The effect of gluten on brain and nervous tissue is significantly worse and more far-reaching than researchers once thought. Yet, due to poor lab testing and general misinformation, many people continue to eat gluten, unaware it is harming them.
Thanks to more advanced testing, we can now better catch celiac disease and gluten intolerance and go beyond a gluten-free diet to restore health.

Both Dr agree I should be on a gluten free diet but again, small rural town makes it that much harder to be on a diet like that. 60 miles from a Natural Foods store and 120 miles from Whole Foods. Walmarts gluten free "Section" consists of a could cake mixes, pop tarts, pretzels and a pasta. Not much of a good grocery list. I really do want to change my eating habits because I'm clinically obese but with no motivation, tons of stress and a stress eater it's super hard.

Vince said:
Do you or anyone you know have Hashimoto's? If you supplement with vitamin D, have you noticed any changes?

Hashimoto's and Vitamin D Deficiency
Fact or Myth: Over 90% of Hashimoto's patients are Vitamin D Deficient. Hashimoto's Autoimmune Thyroiditis causes these lo...

My was told over the phone I was a bit low on D, I'm guessing not enough to warrant supplementation but maybe I should set up and app. just to talk about results in person and see what he thinks about the Defy thing. I need to get a copy of these results just to have.

CoastWatcher · Feb 3, 2016

J.James.A said:
I don't see it as pushing. It's just that I'm not use to over the phone consultations and I'm more comfortable seeing the Dr when something is up. I think the way Defy is doing their business is going to be the future but it's still a bit nerve wrecking lol. It's something new. Also when I google Defy I get a huge results traced back to this site and I also see them advertising here so I kinda guess if maybe it might be a bit biased?
I'm not claiming it's the offices site lol just kinda pointing out something I noticed lol.

This is Defy's website. I don't quite follow what you're getting at in the post, but click here and you'll see what they are about.

http://www.defymedical.com/

Call them. They answer any questions and don't upsell. I am NOT a Defy patient, but respect their work a great deal.

Vince · Feb 3, 2016

Going grain-free is easy, the hard part is being disciplined enough to stick with it. Eating eggs, meats, nuts and non-starchy free vegetables is easy and you can buy them at any grocery store.

J.James.A · Feb 3, 2016

If I should go with Defy should I keep my Dr. in the loop?

CoastWatcher · Feb 3, 2016

J.James.A said:
If I should go with Defy should I keep my Dr. in the loop?

Defy will address your hormonal issues. They will not be available if you need to consult a doctor in regard to an ear infection. That said, who you consult is your business. I would simply inform your local doctor that your androgen/endocrine issues are handled by another clinic.

HoustonTX · Feb 3, 2016

Not everyone here is a Defy patient as mentioned earlier. I'm not either. I do respect their work and they are the best hormone docs that I know of. I really appreciate them talkie the time to educate others on this board and the podcasts!

Vettester Chris · Feb 3, 2016

J.James.A said:
If I should go with Defy should I keep my Dr. in the loop?

Yes, a good GP should be someone who partners with you, and you can collaborate everything you do with both physicians. My GP, by admission, is not a hormone specialist or endocrine expert, at least not getting in depth with treating adequately. However, she listens very well to what steps I take for my HRT.

On your Hashis ... Is it at the enzyme or protein level (TPO or TgAb) or both? Do you have your lab results, and can you post your other thyroid labs? Adequate dosages of selenium can make big differences. Also, the AI attacks have the potential decrease exponentially with adequate thyroid hormone treatment.

125mcg when settled out is equaled to about 1-1/4 grain of NDT. That IMO wouldn't be nearly enough to make a dent into the AI attacks, but anything administered for this purpose should be heavily supervised by a physician that has experience in this field.

To conclude for now, you mentioned having a conversion problem from T4 to T3. There could be a few different talking points with this subject, but as mentioned earlier, it would be good to see the labs, PLUS a Reverse T3 lab. If excess RT3 is converting from T4, then at a glance it could appear Free T3 is not sufficient. Additionally, 125mcg of Levo T4 could also just be too low of dosage to really make any impact. Ultimately it is usually pretty good to get both FT4 and FT3 in the 50% to 80%-tile of the reference range, with consideration to ensure the FT3/RT3 ratio is 20< . For what it's worth, I think you will get much more bang for the buck with NDT -vs- T4 only synthetics, and you can administer your dosage to get the right area/range for T3; adding a "little" T4 if needed to balance it out a little.

J.James.A · Feb 10, 2016

Vettester Chris said:
Yes, a good GP should be someone who partners with you, and you can collaborate everything you do with both physicians. My GP, by admission, is not a hormone specialist or endocrine expert, at least not getting in depth with treating adequately. However, she listens very well to what steps I take for my HRT.

On your Hashis ... Is it at the enzyme or protein level (TPO or TgAb) or both? Do you have your lab results, and can you post your other thyroid labs? Adequate dosages of selenium can make big differences. Also, the AI attacks have the potential decrease exponentially with adequate thyroid hormone treatment.

125mcg when settled out is equaled to about 1-1/4 grain of NDT. That IMO wouldn't be nearly enough to make a dent into the AI attacks, but anything administered for this purpose should be heavily supervised by a physician that has experience in this field.

To conclude for now, you mentioned having a conversion problem from T4 to T3. There could be a few different talking points with this subject, but as mentioned earlier, it would be good to see the labs, PLUS a Reverse T3 lab. If excess RT3 is converting from T4, then at a glance it could appear Free T3 is not sufficient. Additionally, 125mcg of Levo T4 could also just be too low of dosage to really make any impact. Ultimately it is usually pretty good to get both FT4 and FT3 in the 50% to 80%-tile of the reference range, with consideration to ensure the FT3/RT3 ratio is 20< . For what it's worth, I think you will get much more bang for the buck with NDT -vs- T4 only synthetics, and you can administer your dosage to get the right area/range for T3; adding a "little" T4 if needed to balance it out a little.

I was thinking about letting my Dr know what I was planning on doing.

I don't or didn't have any issues converting, that's why I was placed on Synthroid, my blood work showed that I was converting it. I would still like to switch to Nature to see if it helps.

I wanna say TPO but honestly I don't remember. I haven't listed any paperwork, been really busy lately so I haven't had time to make calls.

Now back to Defy Medical. I know it get tons of love here but after researching them the Dr. I think I would love to talk to is Dr. Rand or Saya, Google wasn't to kind on Crisler especially 2015 reviews. Jasen Bruce really got the worst of it though. I know I don't own the place but imo maybe its not the best keeping him around? Kinda hesitant calling them when seeing the staff they carry. Saya & Rand search were clean and Rand's youtube videos are GREAT and really comforting.

Anyone use these 2 Dr.s? You can private message me if you don't want to through yourself out there like that it's cool. Also are they as knowledgeable in Thyroid as they are on T?

CoastWatcher · Feb 10, 2016

J.James.A said:
I was thinking about letting my Dr know what I was planning on doing.

I don't or didn't have any issues converting, that's why I was placed on Synthroid, my blood work showed that I was converting it. I would still like to switch to Nature to see if it helps.

I wanna say TPO but honestly I don't remember. I haven't listed any paperwork, been really busy lately so I haven't had time to make calls.

Now back to Defy Medical. I know it get tons of love here but after researching them the Dr. I think I would love to talk to is Dr. Rand or Saya, Google wasn't to kind on Crisler especially 2015 reviews. Jasen Bruce really got the worst of it though. I know I don't own the place but imo maybe its not the best keeping him around? Kinda hesitant calling them when seeing the staff they carry. Saya & Rand search were clean and Rand's youtube videos are GREAT and really comforting.

Anyone use these 2 Dr.s? You can private message me if you don't want to through yourself out there like that it's cool. Also are they as knowledgeable in Thyroid as they are on T?

Use the search function on this site. Plug in Dr. Saya's name. He is a member of the Forum and very generous with his time here. You'll have an opportunity to see his posts, read the research that he's shared here, and get a sense of the man. Do the same thing with Dr. Crisler, he is a member of Excelmale, and contributes to the site. Then, plug in Jasen Bruce, one of my fellow moderators here at Excelmale. Before you go down the rabbit-hole of anonymous, internet posts, spend time reading what these men have actually contributed here. And, no, I am not a Defy patient.

Dr Justin Saya MD · Feb 10, 2016

I just had a 45 minute consult this afternoon with one of our patients that Jasen Bruce recently identified and counseled on chronic opiate and benzodiazepine addiction. This was following and initial two hour consult that Jason himself spent with the patient going over his addiction details, symptoms, and complicating psychosocial factors. Jasen's note following this consult was over two pages long and the amount of detail allowed me to gain a firm grasp on the patient's situation in the shorter amount of time that we had to spend together. Jasen identified this patient, scheduled the no-cost consultation, and wrote an essay of a note, out of his own altruistic nature without any direction or order to do same...and this is by far not the first time, or I'm certain the last time, that he will do this. This is just a small reflection on his character as a person, but I believe much more relevant and noteworthy than anonymous Internet posts or unproven accusations that were determined to be false. Follow through with your due diligence as everyone should, but I can personally testify that Jasen Bruce is one of the nicest, sincerest, and altruistic men I have known in my life.

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