1. #1

    Post 3 month lab update...still feel blah...

    Hey all! I've been on TRT for about 9 months now. Switched over to Defy 90 days ago and just got my results back. Obviously im still a newbie and really don't know how to interpret most of the results so i'd like a little input.

    Currently still have similar symptoms as when I started...low energy, low libido, no change in body composition(still high BF%), and cognitive focus hasn't changed much.

    During this 3 month stint I did about 2 months of hardcore keto and saw/felt no benefits with the exception of about 5 pounds of weight loss. (gym 3 times/ week @ 1hr split 75/25 weights to cardio)

    The one change I have noticed at this point is a slight increase in morning erections but to be honest that's about it.

    Currently taking .25ml of 200mg/ml 3 times a week and 300 units hcg 3 times a week.





    Am I missing something or just that unlucky?
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  3. #2
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    Hi altec, Well your E2 is too high and your blood is as thick as molasis. How's your blood pressure?
    Did Defy give you an AI to take?

    If you haven't had your consult yet they will be telling you to go donate a pint of whole blood and retest your HCT.
    I would also add an extra .125/wk of your AI to your protocol.

  4. #3
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    My original test results were such that the PA said she would prescribe the AI but not order it unless I felt the symptoms...regrettably, i wanted to wait to see what my (estrogen sensitive)test level was before asking to fill the prescription. Could this be a cause for some of my issues?

    Blood pressure has always been just below the normal range but I have not had a test since starting the new protocol with defy.

    Consult with Defy in 3 weeks
    Last edited by altec7777; 05-16-2018 at 08:57 AM. Reason: clarification

  5. #4
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    I would agree it's time to donate blood. I really don't think your estradiol levels are too high, hopefully you won't need at AI. I wonder about your thyroid panel, could you use some improvement there?
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by altec7777 View Post
    My original test results were such that the PA said she would prescribe the AI but not order it unless I felt the symptoms...regrettably, i wanted to wait to see what my (estrogen sensitive)test level was before asking to fill the prescription. Could this be a cause for some of my issues?

    Blood pressure has always been just below the normal range but I have not had a test since starting the new protocol with defy.

    Consult with Defy in 3 weeks
    I would research high E2 symptoms you might find some of what you are feeling can be because of it.
    Also when E2 is high prolactin can be as well and it has its own set of bad side effects.
    IMO having a low dose AI at the ready is a good idea. How do I know that?


    My symptoms were mood swings, extra sensitive to sad things on TV, waves or rushes of emotions, sensitive nipples. Reduced libido, more ED.

    I also believe when you are on TRT and running a high TT you should be monitoring your blood pressure regularly.
    It is the first sign you HCT is going up(blood thickens)

    If yours get much higher they could turn you down at the free blood bank and you will have to pay for
    a blood letting which requires a prescription.

  7. #6
    I think advising an AI at this point is really very poor advice. Your 90 days with Defy...rely on them and continue to press ahead you've only just begun this. There's nothing alarming in your numbers though they will send you to donate blood.

  8. #7
    Take note of FL's post of his labs and DO NOT use that Estrogen testing...it's the wrong one to be using.

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    Wow, that's really good advice. I honestly had not heard of the blood donation issue. I think I need to make a point of getting my BP tested once a month or so, would that be often enough?

    I'm going to read more into the E2 symptoms and see...perhaps trying it out for the next couple months would be a good idea?


    Any more info on the thyroid tests and interpretations?

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    Take note of FL's post of his labs and DO NOT use that Estrogen testing...it's the wrong one to be using.
    I agree he's using the wrong estradiol test it should be the sensitive estradiol test for men
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
    I think advising an AI at this point is really very poor advice. Your 90 days with Defy...rely on them and continue to press ahead you've only just begun this. There's nothing alarming in your numbers though they will send you to donate blood.
    You want to bet money Defy does not put him on an AI with that blood test?
    They are not going to drop the T injection amount because the FT is perfect or the HCG so how will they get the E2 and possibly prolactin down?
    There is only one answer ad a low dose AI.

    Some of this forums regulars has a big problem with "group think" there is nothing wrong with proper use of AI's the problem is some here have OD
    on it and really paid the price that is not the AI's fault.

    Altec use what you read on these forums as food for thought to bring up to Defy. Don't alter your Defy protocol based on advice you get here. Not one of these posters has Dr in from of their name.

  12. #11
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Feelinglost, we were only commenting on the estradiol test they used, as you know they used the wrong one. Keep on posting I always enjoy reading your threads and posting.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  13. #12
    Definitely time to donate, no need wait till your unable to donate. They won't allow you to donate with hemoglobin above 20, advise not to mention you're on TRT when donating as they will deny you.

    An AI is unnecessary when lowering the dosage is more than likely the correct move. You're using Defy Medical so I would use their expertise since you're paying for them to manage your care.

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    Definitely will be donating asap.

    You think although I still feel basically the same as where I started the solution may be to lower my test dosage?

    And I have complete faith in Defy and whichever protocol they believe is best, just want to become more educated and aware of what my body is doing/how it is feeling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by altec7777 View Post
    Definitely will be donating asap.

    You think although I still feel basically the same as where I started the solution may be to lower my test dosage?

    And I have complete faith in Defy and whichever protocol they believe is best, just want to become more educated and aware of what my body is doing/how it is feeling.
    I think you have a thyroid problem that's causing your symptoms. Your T4 is very low and so is your T3. See this link on what is normal thyroid levels and optimal levels:

    https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/



    Dr Childs also has a great explanation of ALL thyroid symptoms. They are also very similar to low T.

    Your T4 is at .99 and he recommends optimal ranges are 1.4-1.77. T3 at 3.3 when optimal ranges are 3.8-4.4. You probably need a T4 medication to help convert more of it to T3. At your consult with Defy, they can properly advise you on thyroid meds.

  16. #15
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    That's a very interesting take...I have often thought it was weird that reference ranges for certain blood tests can vary widely when in reality each person may need their levels to be kept in a smaller range to experience a true "homeostasis."

    Has anyone experienced a situation like this with defy?...specifically, when a blood test falls into the "normal" reference range but due to ongoing symptoms their medical professional suggests an additional medication, in this case, to solve a thyroid issue?

  17. #16
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    altec here is a good post by one of our moderators the great Vince that covers a lot of ground on T4 and T3 dosing. They are the only 2 thyroid hormones actually active with T3 being the most important. I would read the post end to end and dig deeper into other posters with website references.

    I've learned a lot about the thyroid since finding out my Reverse T3 was too high back in March. This was caused by frequent blood donations which lowered my ferritin and iron levels.

    A very good thyroid section here at ExcelMale which is why it is one of the top men's health forums around!

    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...hypothyroidism

    Defy is the one who caught this for me and prescribed T3 only cytomel to lower my RT3 and raise my T3. Been on 20 mcg day since March and feeling a lot lot better. Trust Defy. They know how to manage thyroid and low T.

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