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Eaxctly, my point :) The statement 'the studies say so, so your opinion contradicting them is wrong' is very sulerficial, people should understand how little of the whole picture the studies show us, how limited they are. Also I argued above how such study should be designed and how it seems...

End of discussion for me. You continue to recommend what you consider right, I continue to recommend what I consider right. None of us will change his stance on these two subjects

My provider who is one of the few that really understands progestetone in men says the optimal for most men would be between 1 and 3 nmo/l but still very varyiable in different men according the receptors sensitivity. He evaluates the symptoms together with the values

Also just for reference about the whole discussion about how long to wait about a protocol change: I started NDT a few days ago. T4 has similar half life of testosterone enanthate. My provider(not the legally correct word here) who is very exoerienced in HRT said: Blood work 6 weeks from now...

Thats interesting idea, for someone who likes to use propionate. For me not having tried prop outiside of sustanon the biggest problem with seems it is 100mg/ml

This is total bulshit. I gave all my protocols enough time to work FOR ME, at least 8 weeks. I stated to you several times this is MORE than ENOUGH for me and more than that if I feel bad is a WASTE OF TIME! And please dont come upe again with the lecture how exogenous t works... I know well...

Yes exactly, and there is a reason for that. I think I know what it is and it is exactly because sub q is inferior injection method. And be carrful with cursing, I dont care you are super admin mind your mouth!

Ok, point taken. But other guys here have reported feeling worse on sub q consistently with similar protocols so their experience for me is worth 1000 times more than all the studies in the world because Ive seen this on enough other places totally independent from this forum, and most important...

I dont see any PRACTICAL application of your hypothesises and theories. I dont care about theories without practical application.

For the control part I agree. For using undecanoate I dont. This is an ester that very few people feel well on no matter if they use it IM or sub q qnd even I know a few who tried dosing it weekly at good doasages and still dont feel like they are on a proper protocol of enanthate or sustanon...

I remember in my first opinions here when I asked how to inject IM EOD in the same muscles and stated sub q doesnt work for me you had put that under doubt and suggested that the reason may be something else. If I were a person more willing to follow outside advise without first adhering to my...

This doesnt bring enough practical value, if you cannot apply it to a real world protocol. Man, it seems to me you are interested in exploring theories and studies, but I think most people writing in this forum who have issues with a protocol just want to start feeling good. Im also interested...

You can check with some of them for advice on whether you should start, what protocol to start with and then find a local clinic that will be willing to give you more freedom so you can follow this protocol. This is the best solution Ive come up with when you cannot be managed by a...

You said above you didnt feel as good. Ive seen two types of sub q doesnt work - first type, the total t is lower; second type - the guy has similar numbers but he doesnt feel as good. One of my friends on top of having lower t levels and feeling like shit on sub q had higher blood counts...

Whats the point of setting up a study in a totally unrealistic in the real world scenario? Who would ever do such a protocol?

Think a bit more globally men. Ive consulted with 3 doctors from different continents than the one I Iive in. I also dont have a TRT doctor that knows what he is doing at least in 3-4 countries radius.

No matter how many studies you quote, this wont change the simple fact: SUB Q doesnt work for everyone. Personally experienced by me, and reported by enough people here. Since the short time Ive joined the forum I've read approxiamatelly 10 people reporting that including the OP.

A lot of time the anecdotes especially of so many people who have tried both sub q and IM can be much more trustworthy than a very limited controlled study that has so many potential flaws, the basic of which is not being able to asses and describe how someone feels under a study. I would bet a...

I think you shouldnt be worried about that, but if the e2 is really high IN RELATION TO THE T LEVELS you should be worried about the reason for that - liver, IR, metabolic syndrom, obesity or something else and address that. Adjusting the TRT protocol to reduce e2 is not fixing the root cause...

I understand your point for sub-q, I meet more and more people who dont do well on sub q like me, sub Q JUST DOESNT WORK FOR EVERYONE. Some people on this forum continue to claim that is not the case and people like us are some very rare exception. This can be a decisive misinformation for...

According to your words you are already living a healthy lifestyle, so if that is true and your diet is really healthy(not too much or too little calories and not devoid of some vital nutrients or macros) then you have exhausted that option. The percentage of the people who manage to optimize...

I urge you not be confused because I understand what you think now. 300ng/dl total t is very low. Yes, there are exceptions of guys for which that is enough. MINORITY. it Maybe he is from the exceptions. Or Maybe his libido is fine, but he has other low t symptoms? I also had good libido pre...

There is one NDT here in Europe, from Estonia that my doc used with his European guys and according to him it is very high quality, although it is in the form of supplement, not pharmaceutical. He said it is similar to the US brand ancestral. We expect there might be issues with the thyroid. He...

I can very much agree on all that and your way of thinking. Next week I start thyroid, NDT. I've been considering since I started TRT, but I wanted to settle my TRT regimen and also hoped thyroid may optimize naturally, but it didnt. Thyroid is not terrible, FT3 is midrange, but me and my...

Maybe we have a communication problem and our opinions dont defer that much, I guess in 20min of live talk we would at least decide what we dont agree on...

As you see Im not the only one who can evaluate a protocol after a few weeks on it. This guy is like that, Im like that, he knows other people like that, I know as well. What percentage is like that we dont know. But your claim that everyone should wait more if he feels BAD on week 8 is WRONG...

You said it, not me...

Bingo, exactly my point. So I dont see how a total t of 1300 with an SHBG of above 20 lets say can be considered a mild cycle if this is the level where the guys feels good. Also I see the same mistake from certain users comparing how many mg average young healthy body produces per week to a TRT...

No luck at all, I just know my body. 6-8 weeks is more than enough time to asses a protocol for me, for sustanon 10 weeks maybe. More than that is a WASTE OF TIME. I guess for some peoole it takes longer, but for others Ive seen also similar period is needed for a protocol to work. Also all the...

This is a terrible protocol that can cause all kinds of issues and is normal to feel bad on every two weeks testosterone injections. It is advised you inject at least twice a week. Also please post your dosages in mg, not ml

So first keep the respectful tone please! Also I dont have so much time to address all your points, so will do for some of them: Ok, so the whole argument is that I suggested him starting at 20-30mg higher initially because I've seen almost no guys be optimal at 100(I know there are such guys...