Hi, new guy (40) on TRT from the Netherlands

Hi guys, new to this group. I'm a dutch guy, 40 years old, from the Netherlands. My story is that over the years, I was experiencing some symptoms; mainly a lack of energy and motivation, sometimes brain fog. Libido was dropping as well. I went to my primary doctor, and they tested my level of T. Turned out, it was 13.9 nmol (they only test the total I guess), and that was 'perfectly normal', according to the doctor, so they won't set me up with TRT.

I did some more research and learned that it was actually on the lower end, and in combination with the spectrum of symptoms, I should actually be a candidate for TRT.

So I took matters into my own hands, and got it myself with online providers. I use testosterone enanthate, 175mg a week, split into 2 doses, together with 500iu of HCG, also split in 2 doses.

3 months in, I feel great. It has fixed all of my symptoms, 100%. No more lack of motivation, energy is stable throughout the day and libido is great, my girl is very happy as well. I'm already past the 'honeymoon phase' and things feel relatively stable and normalised. My brain fog also seems to be slowly evaporating.

So now I'm looking at the next step, which should be getting my bloodwork done. I'm doing all this by myself without help, apart from doing a lot of research, reading articles, listening to podcasts and videos. If you guys have any advice or you notice anything on my story, it's more than welcome. I'm also looking for a good place in the EU or Netherlands to get my bloodwork done.

The minimum trouble/zero-cost option: ask your GP for a standard blood panel which usually includes hemoglobin, hematocrit, lipids.

Seagal said:

The minimum trouble/zero-cost option: ask your GP for a standard blood panel which usually includes hemoglobin, hematocrit, lipids.

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Thanks. Of course I have to keep my TRT quiet, so for what reason would I ask for that?

mrblonde01 said:

Thanks. Of course I have to keep my TRT quiet, so for what reason would I ask for that?

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Regular check up since you are getting older, are concerned about age related diseases diabetes, cholesterol... maybe 'high cholesterol ' runs in your family...

Interesting! My cholesterol was a little high before I started TRT, so that's actually a really good one. If I ask them to check my cholesterol, will they also check my hematocrit etc by default?

mrblonde01 said:

Interesting! My cholesterol was a little high before I started TRT, so that's actually a really good one. If I ask them to check my cholesterol, will they also check my hematocrit etc by default?

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Just for the record, high cholesterol is what you want. You don't want it low or mid normal. My cholesterol is sky high, almost double the normal ranges.

I'm healthy, have insane energy and very strong for a 52 year old!

Trt raises cholesterol as well right? So my already slightly high cholesterol should have increased?

mrblonde01 said:

Trt raises cholesterol as well right?

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That has more to do with diet. The carnivore diet certainly will. Testosterone is made up of cholesterol.

Here's my lipid panel 5 months on the carnivore diet.

mrblonde01 said:

Hi guys, new to this group. I'm a dutch guy, 40 years old, from the Netherlands. My story is that over the years, I was experiencing some symptoms; mainly a lack of energy and motivation, sometimes brain fog. Libido was dropping as well. I went to my primary doctor, and they tested my level of T. Turned out, it was 13.9 nmol (they only test the total I guess), and that was 'perfectly normal', according to the doctor, so they won't set me up with TRT.

I did some more research and learned that it was actually on the lower end, and in combination with the spectrum of symptoms, I should actually be a candidate for TRT.

So I took matters into my own hands, and got it myself with online providers. I use testosterone enanthate, 175mg a week, split into 2 doses, together with 500iu of HCG, also split in 2 doses.

3 months in, I feel great. It has fixed all of my symptoms, 100%. No more lack of motivation, energy is stable throughout the day and libido is great, my girl is very happy as well. I'm already past the 'honeymoon phase' and things feel relatively stable and normalised. My brain fog also seems to be slowly evaporating.

So now I'm looking at the next step, which should be getting my bloodwork done. I'm doing all this by myself without help, apart from doing a lot of research, reading articles, listening to podcasts and videos. If you guys have any advice or you notice anything on my story, it's more than welcome. I'm also looking for a good place in the EU or Netherlands to get my bloodwork done.

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Welcome to Nelson's domain!

Was your blood work done in the early AM in a fasted state?

We always want to test at peak (highest point).

Although a TT 13.9 nmol/L (400.9 ng/dL) is far from stellar it is not a given that your FT is low.

Need to know where your SHBG sits.

You are missing the most critical blood marker which is free testosterone.

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

If you do not have access to such then you will need to use/rely upon the linear law-of-mass action cFTV which is available online for free.

Need to know where your TT, SHBG, and Albumin sit to calculate your FT.

If you do not have Albumin then you can just use 4.3 ng/dL (default).


The bottom line here is you were missing the most critical blood marker FT yet still hopped on therapy without even knowing where it sits.

Too late now as the clinic treating you most likely jacked up your levels from the get-go.

Bad move without a thorough set of labs let alone getting one of those run-of-the-mill T clinics to manage your TTh.

Most of these idiots jack up your T straight out the gate without even understanding how esterified exogenous T works.

Start low and go slow on a T-only protocol is where it's at as we want to see how your body reacts to testosterone and where said protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) will have your trough TT, FT, and estradiol let alone other critical blood markers such as RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

When first starting TTh or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE) and it is common to experience ups/downs along the way as the body is trying to adjust.

More importantly, once blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE) it will still take time (a few months) for the body to adapt to its new set-point and this is the critical time when one needs to gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.

Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) before claiming it was truly a success or failure.

The goal would be using the lowest weekly dose that would allow one to hit/maintain a healthy trough FT level to reap the beneficial effects while at the same time minimizing/preventing sides (cosmetic/blood markers).

Lots of time to increase your dose or add hCG if needed.

Should have looked into this deeper before hopping on.

Keep in mind any dysfunction of the thyroid/adrenals can easily mimic low-T symptoms.

Your starting protocol is overkill!

The common starting dose is 100 mg T/week or better yet 50 mg T twice weekly (every 3.5 days).

You blew past this out the gate!

Most men on TTh are injecting 100-200mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections such as twice-weekly (every 3.5 days), EOD, or daily.

Even then the majority of men can easily hit a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into frequent injections.

Yes, some outliers may need the higher-end dose of 200 mg/week but this is far from common.

175 mg T/week off the hop + hCG is going to most likely have your trough FT too high let alone drive up your RBCs, hemoglobin, and hematocrit.

Keep in mind running too high a trough FT can be just as bad in many ways as running too low an FT especially when it comes to libido/erectile function and mood.

Many make the mistake of getting caught up in that more T is better mentality jacking up their T levels off the hop.

Many may feel great when first starting (a few months in) only to be let down in the long run especially when it comes to libido/erectile function.

Only time will tell.

Luckily you are 3 months in and feel great overall.

Hopefully, it lasts.

Stick with what is working for you.

Will be interesting to see labs at the 6-week mark.

Again if you do not have access to the most accurate assays (ED/UF) for testing FT then you will need to use/rely upon the cFTV.

Systemlord said:

• Hematocrit
• Hemoglobin
• Total T
• SHBG
• Estrogen
• CBC
• PSA

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Lol.

You are missing one of the most critical blood markers free testosterone!

Systemlord said:

• Hematocrit
• Hemoglobin
• Total T
• SHBG
• Estrogen
• CBC
• PSA

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Throw in a full thyroid panel/adrenals too!

Poor chap never tested thyroid/cortisol let alone FT!

Systemlord said:

Just for the record, high cholesterol is what you want. You don't want it low or mid normal. My cholesterol is sky high, almost double the normal ranges.

I'm healthy, have insane energy and very strong for a 52 year old!

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Nonsense!

madman said:

Lol.

You are missing one of the most critical blood markers free testosterone!

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

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He can get that from the Total T and SHBG, and likely doesn't have access to Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

madman said:

Throw in a full thyroid panel/adrenals too!

Poor chap never tested thyroid/cortisol let alone FT!

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mrblonde01 said:

3 months in, I feel great.

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Further testing of thyroid and adrenals would be redundant at this point.

Systemlord said:

Just for the record, high cholesterol is what you want. You don't want it low or mid normal. My cholesterol is sky high, almost double the normal ranges.

I'm healthy, have insane energy and very strong for a 52 year old!

Click to expand...

madman said:

Nonsense!

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Systemlord said:

He can get that from the Total T and SHBG, and likely doesn't have access to Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.



Further testing of thyroid and adrenals would be redundant at this point.

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He can get that from the Total T and SHBG, and likely doesn't have access to Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

No shit Sherlock!

You never even mention this!


Further testing of thyroid and adrenals would be redundant at this point

Bullshit!

Important to to know where everything sits pre/post TTh.

Systemlord said:

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Think I will pass!

My bloodwork is stellar and my cholesterol is healthy!

Systemlord said:

I shouldn't have to, it's obvious.

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Yes, you should as this guy let alone many have no clue!

madman said:

Think I will pass!

My bloodwork is stellar and my cholesterol is healthy!

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You mean the new healthy normal (lol), based off the western modernized processed food diet. I want what was normal in the past, before heart disease, Dementia and Alzheimer's disease existed.

If it didn't exist 50,000 years ago, I won't eat it.

I'm going back to the original human healthy normal.

Systemlord said:

You mean the new healthy normal (lol), based off the

Systemlord said:

You mean the new healthy normal (lol), based off the western modernized processed food diet. I want what was normal in the past, before heart disease, Dementia and Alzheimer's disease existed.

If it didn't exist 50,000 years ago, I won't eat it.

I'm going back to the original human healthy normal.

Click to expand...

I want what was normal in the past, before heart disease, Dementia and Alzheimer's disease existed.

If it didn't exist 50,000 years ago, I won't eat it.

I'm going back to the original human healthy normal.

Click to expand...

My diet is clean!

Yes, a whopping 500-600 grams of complex low GI starchy carbs/day.

200+ grams of protein/day from 2 pounds of red meat or mixed sources (whole eggs, poultry/game, fish, seafood, and whey).

Yes, a shitload of vegetables (fibrous carbs).

Moderate fats (saturated, monounsaturated, and the critical EFAs)!

5 meals/day.

Been eating this way for decades

Stellar blood work, strong as an ox, and in great shape to boot!

Fuck carnivore/keto!

If it suits you go nuts!