Why do some people require high testosterone levels to feel good on trt?

[Bp5]

Most of the population feels totally fine with test levels naturally around like 500 or 600 or 700 and their free T isn't nearly 20+. On trt, a lot of guys don't feel good or get symptom relief until they go higher than that. And if their trough is 800 or 900, their peak is certainly even higher.
Why is that? Is Testosterone really the problem then after 6-700 or do the higher levels mask symptoms of some other underlying issue?

 

[cigpk]

Most of the population feels totally fine with test levels naturally around like 500 or 600 or 700 and their free T isn't nearly 20+. On trt, a lot of guys don't feel good or get symptom relief until they go higher than that. And if their trough is 800 or 900, their peak is certainly even higher.
Why is that? Is Testosterone really the problem then after 6-700 or do the higher levels mask symptoms of some other underlying issue?

Great question. I’m interested to see the discussion. My personal experience was that I used to run high, over range T levels. In time I was able to lower my total/free T level to mid range at trough and still feel good, just not like Superman all the time. A little more work was required in the gym and things like sleep and diet were more important. But I personally, for MYSELF ONLY, don’t like the idea of running very high testosterone levels. Plus, I’m only 29. I can’t sit well with having crazy high T levels for the next 40-50 years. I feel like it’s asking for disaster.

I think people should exhaust all options and look at their health from all angles before relying on higher T numbers to feel good. Within reason of course, people don’t have to suffer for years and years. But look at thyroid, stress level, sleep, diet, exercise level, psychological health, etc..

One other thought - I don’t think people give themselves enough time at a dose to adjust and feel the effects. 6 weeks in people check their levels and may not feel wonderful so they immediately ask for a dosage increase. I found that my body was still adjusting to my total T levels long after my “numbers on paper” stabilized. It may take 2-3 months to feel a subjective change to a new testosterone level for me.

 

[trt reznor]

Good question. I think we’re all so different. Our bodies are meant to idle at certain levels, so while 500 may be a great improvement to some, others (like myself) can experience low T symptoms at this level. Who’s to say one particular person should be at 850, but certain circumstances has dropped their natural levels down by 350 points. Where as the other guy’s natural level would be 350, he might feel like a champ at 500.

 

[captain]

Think of it like insulin and how much each individual may need will vary. Would you dose insulin a dose that doesn't get the job done? Why dose T for a number that is not making you healthy and happy? Maybe if you don't use an adequate dose of T is asking for a disaster. There is people on this forum that have been on TRT for over 20 years and I haven't seen a post from any of them about a disaster.

 

[S1W]

I wonder if it has anything to do with overcoming some sort of resistance. Some guys (like me) arrived here because of other issues that affected their systems. In my case I strongly suspect Accutane. For others it’s finasteride, others AAS abuse, others some sort of prior health issue (cancer, chemo, etc), and some just aren’t geared right.

Regardless, suffice to say that it’s an apples to oranges comparison - we simply aren’t like guys that thrive on middle of the road T levels.

 

[Larry P]

Depends on many factors. I had my TT tested when I was 60 years old. It was 1048. I did not have my FT tested at that time. When I was 66 I tested TT again and it was 848. I did not test for FT. When I was 68 I felt so tired and was losing my libido and had both TT and FT tested. TT was down to 462 and FT was 5.1. These are from LabCorp. I started on low doses of Cypionate .25ml/50 mg every seven days. I responded well and both TT and FT went way up. I tried the same dose every five days and my TT and FT 1406 and 208 for Quest labs. My estradiol went above 100. I dropped my dose to .20ml/40mg every five days and now I feel OK. My latest labs are from Quest and I have TT at 844 and FT at 95. Going by the TruT my FT is 28.04 ng/dl, which is in the upper range. I feel pretty good, but I do wonder why my TT is still way below where it was before I started on TRT. My estradiol on the ultra sensitive test is down to 10, so it is now under control. I imagine my TT and FT when I was in my early twenties to be above 1000 TT and at least 2-3% of TT for FT. My doctor is an idiot and thinks my TT is too high even through I show him my natural level tested nine years ago is much higher. I found another doctor who is up to date on TRT and thinks my numbers are too low. I might try going up to .22ml/44mg for five day cycle and see where that puts me.

 

[Charliebizz]

Are you trying to ask why a guy had a natural level of 500 and felt good but then had low t and on trt he needs his level at 800 to feel good ?

 

[M.J]

I don’t think u need very high t levels to feel good, I felt good with mid range t levels, I guess some have estradiol unchecked which can cuz issues or other thing and they think they need high t to mask those out.

 

[bouquetCPA]

My total testosterone levels need to just above the top end of the spectrum in order to have a decent amount of free-t. Why? Because my SHBG runs high (50 - 70 nmol/L) and "normal" total testosterone levels of 500 or 600 ng/dL will have my free testosterone at 6 to 10 pg/mL. BTDT and it almost felt as bad as my pre TRT levels in the 200s with lack of energy and all that jazz.

I tried explaining this to my GP when he said I shouldn't have such a high dose of testosterone keeping my total levels around 1,000 to 1,100. He didn't understand the concept of free testosterone at all and tried to tell me I was taking a "body builder's" dose. Umm, I'm afraid he was wrong there too...

 

[Bp5]

Are you trying to ask why a guy had a natural level of 500 and felt good but then had low t and on trt he needs his level at 800 to feel good ?

Yes exactly!

 

[Charliebizz]

Yes exactly!

That’s a very good question. But I think there is way to many variables. To come to a conclusion on that.

 

[broker]

Unfortunately many guys using T are former steroid users and still want more muscle. Its kind of ridiculous but whatever.
You also have some people who are hyperfocused on how they feel minute to minute which is VERY unrealistic.
True, the more T you take, the better you feel to an extent but you are now crossing the line from T replacement to lifetime steroid cycle. where do you draw the line? If you are in your 40’s or 50’s and dont feel good with T levels in the 600’s with normal estradiol and corresponding Free T, you have other issues not related to T.
I can take one vicodin and feel great relief from some pain but i feel better taking 2, then 3, then 4. The beauty is i get to then blame my doctor for becoming an addict and getting health issues. America is a great country.

 

[Charliebizz]

I think you guys are missing the question. He’s asking why do some feel the same naturally at 500 as 800 on trt

 

[Vince]

Keep It Up: The Power of Precision Medicine to Conquer Low T and Revitalize Your Life! Hardcover October 8, 2013 by Florence Comite - I read this book a couple of years ago and thought it was really good. I read the kindle version. She talks about men feeling their best, when having their testosterone levels, at the levels they were, when they were young. She believes young men should have their levels tested, so when they get older they know what to shoot for.

 

[trt reznor]

Keep It Up: The Power of Precision Medicine to Conquer Low T and Revitalize Your Life! Hardcover October 8, 2013 by Florence Comite - I read this book a couple of years ago and thought it was really good. I read the kindle version. She talks about men feeling their best, when having their testosterone levels, at the levels they were, when they were young. She believes young men should have their levels tested, so when they get older they know what to shoot for.

Good theory. I’ve noticed for some time now that the guys who had healthy levels when they were younger usually have the easiest time with TRT. It’s the guys who had unhealthy levels of hormone balances even in their teens and twenties that seem to have a much harder time.

 

[Charliebizz]

Good theory. I’ve noticed for some time now that the guys who had healthy levels when they were younger usually have the easiest time with TRT. It’s the guys who had unhealthy levels of hormone balances even in their teens and twenties that seem to have a much harder time.

I think my levels were fine and I have hard time with trt. I can’t confirm this but I had normal puberty. Tons of facial hair deep voice sex drive and erections were great until 26 years old when I was over training and under eating

 

[Vince]

I think my levels were fine and I have hard time with trt. I can’t confirm this but I had normal puberty. Tons of facial hair deep voice sex drive and erections were great until 26 years old when I was over training and under eating

Before going the trt route, did you try to raise your levels naturally? 26 is pretty young for trt.

 

[Charliebizz]

Yeah. I didn’t use try trt till 28-29.. I tried clomid restart before trt. I tried a few things diet wise. Tried Triptorelin restart. And my longest run with trt was last year when I was 36. My natural numbers the last 10 years been mostly 230-290. I had one reading a few years ago at 380 but that was just one time.