Thyroid help

[sh1973]

I’ve been on trt going on 11 years and for the last couple years I’ve been struggling with fatigue especially in the afternoon. I noticed by early morning temp has fallen to the low 97 range and used to be up near 99. I recently did another complete thyroid panel and my levels are still within range. Defy wants me to try Armour thyroid 1/2 grain 30mg daily. I’ve only taken it now 4-5 days. I think I’m starting to feel some better but I’m not sure if I should be taking anything with my levels. They told me I can up the dose in 1.5 weeks to 1 grain. The main two questions I have is am I making a mistake by starting thyroid meds and how long does it normally take to see real improvement in symptoms?

 

[Vince]

What stands out to me is your high reverse T3. You may want to take some low dose cytomel. 6.25 micrograms twice a day. Along with your armor. That should lower your reverse T3 and of course increase your free T3.

 

[sh1973]

Thanks Vince, do you think with my levels that I should be doing treatment? I hate adding another medication but if it helps then I suppose it’s worth it. I can discuss the cytomel with them as well.

 

[Cataceous]

I had very similar rT3, fT3 and fT4. I also had later-day fatigue. Defy prescribed liothyronine and it really seemed to help, even at only 5 mcg qd. RT3 went down substantially, but fT4 went down and fT3 didn't change much as I recall.

 

[sh1973]

Cataceous I’m not familiar with that medication. In your case did it seem to help and if so how long did it take you to notice a change? I really don’t know much about thyroid treatment but both my parents are on Levothyroxine. Im not sure if the armour thyroid is a good medication for my case but I guess I trust their judgement.

 

[Cataceous]

Liothyronine is just the generic name for Cytomel, man-made T3. I should add that my serum fT3 does jump some after taking the medicine, but is back to the pre-treatment baseline before the next dose. Yet it's enough for symptom resolution, which occurred within a few weeks.

 

[sh1973]

Liothyronine is just the generic name for Cytomel, man-made T3. I should add that my serum fT3 does jump some after taking the medicine, but is back to the pre-treatment baseline before the next dose. Yet it's enough for symptom resolution, which occurred within a few weeks.

Have you heard of any patients doing well on armour thyroid? There’s lots of conflicting information out there regarding it’s use. The theory is it can push some people’s t4 too high.

 

[Vince]

Have you heard of any patients doing well on armour thyroid? There’s lots of conflicting information out there regarding it’s use. The theory is it can push some people’s t4 too high.

If that’s pre-numbers, They’re not too bad. I would just be concerned about your reverse T3, it means you’re pooling your free T3. A generic low dose T3 should correct that.

 

[Cataceous]

Have you heard of any patients doing well on armour thyroid? There’s lots of conflicting information out there regarding it’s use. The theory is it can push some people’s t4 too high.

There are certainly those who do well on Armour, but I don't know if they're the ones who had high rT3 as the main issue. What I like about the low doses of T3 is that there's not the suppression and full replacement that's needed with higher doses of T3 and/or T4.

 

[sh1973]

I will certainly check into that

 

[Sides]

I wish that I had your numbers. My Reverse T3 is higher than yours, and Free T3 and Free T4 lower, although my TSH is also lower. And I've been struggling with fatigue and anxiety issues for months now that have made me suspect adrenal fatigue, although I am aware that endocrinologists will tell you there is no such condition.

My last 3 months of thyroid labs (totally off thyroid meds) are:

May 28:
T3, FREE 2.6 NORMAL 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T4, FREE 1.1 NORMAL 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
TSH 1.23 NORMAL 0.40-4.50 mIU/L
Reverse T3 26 HIGH 8-25ng/dL
THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES <1 NORMAL <=1iu/ml
THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES <1 NORMAL <=9iu/ml
DHEA SULFATE 58 NORMAL 38-313 mcg/dL

May 8:
T3, FREE 2.6 NORMAL 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T4, FREE 1.1 NORMAL 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
TSH 1.09 NORMAL 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

April:
T3, FREE 2.6 NORMAL 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T4, FREE 1.1 NORMAL 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
TSH 1.50 NORMAL 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

March:
T3, FREE 2.9 NORMAL 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T4, FREE 1.0 NORMAL 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
TSH 1.17 NORMAL 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

TSH looks good, but Free T-3 and Free T-4 are definitely low. The question is why? With Free T-3 at 2.6, my TSH should be elevated to signal more T-4 to produce more T-3. If it were a T-4 to T-3 conversion issue in the liver, my T-4 should be higher in an attempt to make more T-3, so my body is apparently happy with my T-3 level but it’s not adequate.

It was suggested to me to “consider cortisol. Best way to test it is with a 24hr saliva test, blood test doesn’t offer much insight. With "adrenal fatigue" at first, the thyroid will output more hormone but as lack of cortisol production continues and the body becomes drained, TSH will drop to reduce T-4 and T-3 as the body can't handle the stimulation or energy production. That would explain the low TSH with low T-3 and T-4. This is central hypothyroidism, where the TSH is normal, but the actual thyroid hormones (T-3 and T-4) are low because the communication pathway isn’t working properly.”

I am aware of the theory of T-3 pooling, and the use of small doses of T-3 to help bring down levels of T-3. I know that if I use larger doses of T-3 (12.5-25mcg), it makes me unbearably lethargic and definitely fatigues me more. But if I use nothing, I am often anxious and OCD until I crash and am lethargic and fatigued.

So I wonder whether using small regular doses of T-3 will help?

 

[VacationMan]

Have you heard of any patients doing well on armour thyroid? There’s lots of conflicting information out there regarding it’s use. The theory is it can push some people’s t4 too high.

I was on NatureThroid, then WP Thyroid, then NP Thyroid and finally Armour Thyroid. All the changes were due to recalls and shortages. Of all the ND thyroid treatments, Armour did me the most good. It definitely helped in the FT4 and TSH departments, but spiked my FT3 too high and I felt "jittery". The thing about the ND thyroid treatments is that you cannot control individual doses of T4/T3 and customize to fit your specific needs. You get what you get...and that's what you get.

I'm doing better on Levothyroxine (generic Synthroid) and Liothyronine (generic Cytomel). #Hashimotos

 

[sh1973]

If that’s pre-numbers, They’re not too bad. I would just be concerned about your reverse T3, it means you’re pooling your free T3. A generic low dose T3 should correct that.

Yes the labs provided are pre treatment

 

[sh1973]

I hope I can prevent someone from making this mistake I’ve made with taking a hormone I obviously didn’t need. I started armour thyroid two weeks ago with just 30mg/1/2 grain. The first few days seemed promising but after increasing the dose 1/4 grain less than two weeks in all hell broke loose. For the last two days I’ve had a resting heart rate average of 114 bpm and an average blood pressure of 145/99. I stopped taking it today and haven’t taken it since yesterday am. I am still suffering extreme anxiety, elevated heart rate and blood pressure. Long story short of your levels aren’t that bad, don’t screw with this garbage. This is without a doubt the worst experience I’ve ever had with a medication and the bad part is I’m gonna suffer several more days until this shit dissipates.

 

[fifty]

I thought the main idea of the STTM books was to avoid t4-only treatment.

Is Armour NDT?

 

[sh1973]

Yes it’s ndt

 

[Walker DC APRN]

You might want to contact Defy about your symptoms so they have an idea of what is going on. Defy is set up for direct communication for questions and symptom calls 6 days a week. They encourage their patients to contact them as soon as possible if any symptoms arise. They will get an answer to you to help you as soon as possible.

 

[sh1973]

I haven’t called but I ceased using it two days ago. No way even if paid would I ever go down that road again. My numbers really aren’t all that bad to begin with. They just thought getting my free t3 up a tad might help some.

 

[Walker DC APRN]

I replied: Defy does not charge existing patients for symptom calls, or if you have a question. Send them an email – just copy and paste what you said here on the Forum.

 

[sh1973]

I talked to them at noon today and they told me to stop the medication which I already did. They advised me it could take 7 days or more to revert to normal.