Stop taking Vitamin D already

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FunkOdyssey

Active Member
As a recovering supplement-holic and veteran of 20+ years of supplement hype cycles, I have a bias against useless and/or dangerous supplementation. Vitamin D belongs mostly in the former category, though you can push it into the latter with high doses. Like antioxidant vitamins and like fish oil, associations found between D levels and various health outcomes built a runaway hype train that kept running long after a consistent pattern of failed clinical trials should have derailed it.

Check out this article and the study it references:
Stop Taking Vitamin D Already!

 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

Guided_by_Voices

Well-Known Member
This article is typical mainstream medicine nonsense. Citing poorly done studies does not constitute good evidence, and as has been shown repeatedly over the past three years Vitamin D is a major factor in immune function, and around 50 seems to be the sweet spot which is unachievable without supplementation for most of us in the winter. Vitamin D needs to be supplemented with an appropriate dose of Vitamin A and K2 as Chris Masterjohn, Paul Jaminet and others have written extensively on. That said, sunshine is clearly the best source when sufficiently intense sun is available, however this is nowhere to be found in official guidance from so-called "health authorities." The incidence of almost every major health condition increases with distance from the equator which further suggests sun exposure (and likely Vitamin D) are critical to health. Any study which didn't, at a minimum, dose based on blood levels, include co-factors, and focus on things like immune function which Vitamin D actually acts on, can go straight in the garbage, and I would bet that is over 98% of them. Additionally, health is dependent on a vast array of nutrients, so no one in their right mind would focus on just one thing, and it will never be possible to tell exactly what nutrient is doing what in combination with all the others, but it is very clear that you do not want to be low on Vitamin D
 

readalot

Member
No positive or negative controls reported in this study as far as I can tell. Really poor DOE and scientific rigor unless I am missing something. As @Guided_by_Voices mentioned, where is the blood level testing for 25-OH Vit D? Disappointed.


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How do we know the Vit-D+ arm of the study actually received Vit D? Trust but verify.


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EDIT:

I stand corrected.


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I will see if I can find the histograms for Vit-D vs placebo groups.



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Willyt

Active Member
Its interesting that many of the pre-TRT blood tests posted here show Vit D levels at low-or-below range. This was my case as well.

Like the OP, I have also ditched almost all supplements including multivitamin on theory that they cause more trouble than they are worth. For Vit D, I try to limit use to wintertime months, but only if test shows deficiency. Seems like a sensible balance.
 

Dialingitin

New Member
Ehh... no one should be blindly supplementing high dose Vit D but in my case I do not reach my target serum D levels of mid-70s without 10,000 IU/daily supplementation. Without that dose I am in the low 20s. Caveat that K2 and A supplementation is important as well.

Some of us have a gene mutation associated with low or very low serum D levels and sun exposure alone does not move the needle for me. I am obsessive about getting sun daily but more for the dopamine / melatonin / hormone benefits.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I supplement with 5000 IU of vitamin D3 daily on Sunday I take 10,000 keeps my levels in a good range.
 

FunkOdyssey

Active Member
Its interesting that many of the pre-TRT blood tests posted here show Vit D levels at low-or-below range. This was my case as well.

I think of 25OHD now more like a biomarker for health. Inflammation drives it down, so people with chronic disease, autoimmune disorders, obesity, etc will have low 25OHD. Treating the 25OHD level in these cases is like treating a fire by blowing the smoke away.
 

Mastodont

Member
Yes it is not like testosterone, albeit a hormone, in that raising it artificially is a good idea. Morley Robbins makes a good case against the more is better hype, it is funny how people in the dark north survived to this day without d gems, they ate fish, mushrooms, etc. I currently only take cod liver oil, it has vitamin a in a natural ratio with d. It almost seems like the D-train is pushed by big pharma by proxies to make people die younger and need medication.
 

Systemlord

Member
I think the only people that should be supplementing vitamin D are those that can't keep it up, no pun intended.

I supplement 6400 IU D3 daily, any less and I don't feel well and any more causes GI craziness.
 

Mastodont

Member
I tried pretty much every dose, and with k2, both forms, always felt better without any d3 supps, and with just cod liver oil, very few people check their calcitriol or ionized calcium, to see if there is any reason to release more calcium into the blood. It is funny how some people report feeling better with big doses of D, and i feel better without regardless of the levels.
 
I think that vitamin D is one of the most important supplements someone can take, and probably the best deal on the market for any supplement. You can get about a half year’s supply for 15 bucks. On an anecdotal level it absolutely helps my mental state in the winter. It also helps preserve bone mass in all people. I’ve also seen enough studies on its effects regarding infectious diseases like Covid and even other issues like cancer or autoimmune disorders. Our modern lifestyles lead to tons of health issues, and imho vitamin D deficiency is one of the more impactful ones.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
Another problem......I do about 30-100, 3 day dietary analysis on college students every semester. Most all of them are horribly deficient in vitamin D3. As we remember some of the research that has been done on Covid. Those who were deficient seen to be at a higher risk. What's worse with out collage kids is they have also been preached to all their live about not going out into the sun.

 

sammmy

Active Member
Vitamin D seems to be an anti-inflammatory i.e. immuno-suppressing, not "immune-boosting". That explains how it can be used in COVID - remember that immune-suppressing corticosteroids reduce COVID mortality.

It was also shown in placebo double-blind studies that vit D supplementation reduced respiratory infections. However, I am guessing, it reduced the SYMPTOMS or such infections (like any anti-inflammatory), which made some infections non-symptomatic, hence "reduced their number".

Here is an extensive review of vit D studies: Vitamin D and inflammatory diseases

You should ignore any Retrospective, Prospective, and Cross-sectional studies. These are just correlation and do not show or prove vitamin D will treat anything. Rely only on double-blind interventional studies in humans.
 

Mastodont

Member
What's worse with out collage kids is they have also been preached to all their live about not going out into the sun.
This is the bigger problem, and its not just vitamin d, we were evolved under the sunlight, and it is not just vit D, it's the NIR that makes our bodies thrive, in a natural environment plants reflect that radiation even if we are not in direct sunlight. Hence, we cannot replace the sun with isolated d-supplements. One winter i went through UVB therapy, it considerably raised my levels of d, and i felt better, raising that number with isolated d-supplements however never produces a similar state of wellbeing.
 

FunkOdyssey

Active Member
This is the bigger problem, and its not just vitamin d, we were evolved under the sunlight, and it is not just vit D, it's the NIR that makes our bodies thrive, in a natural environment plants reflect that radiation even if we are not in direct sunlight. Hence, we cannot replace the sun with isolated d-supplements. One winter i went through UVB therapy, it considerably raised my levels of d, and i felt better, raising that number with isolated d-supplements however never produces a similar state of wellbeing.
Excellent point as we talk about the idea of 25OHD as a biomarker that often points to other things without being mechanistically involved. There is mich more going on with sunlight than Vitamin D -- look at the antiinflammatory effects of infrared light, look at the effects of bright light in general on mood and cognition.

Low 25OHD is associated with depression but supplementing it doesn't improve depression. Inflamed people with sedentary indoor lifestyles as either a cause or result of their depression will have low 25OHD. Surprisingly, if you think vitamin D had something to do with the sunlight/depression connection that manifests as seasonal affective disorder, what actually improves depression is just a bright ass light in your face in the morning, with no UV or vitamin D production involved.
 

FunkOdyssey

Active Member
As we remember some of the research that has been done on Covid. Those who were deficient seen to be at a higher risk.

This is the latest example of a hype generating association found between Vitamin D level and health outcome. Think about who has low Vitamin D though: the obese and the chronically ill. If you wanted a single biomarker to flag people who are going to have worse COVID outcomes 250HD probably does a bang up job, without necessarily having a causal relationship.
 

FunkOdyssey

Active Member
I will say though after reviewing some of the clinical trials of Vitamin D for COVID, it might be inappropriate to paint that with the same brush as everything else Vitamin D doesn't work for. Seems like there is something there. Interesting that it doesn't work as well if you take it prophylactically though, which is something you would be doing if you were a Vit D hype train passenger.

Literature supports the overall "stop taking D" message if you're concerned about COVID -- instead, wait until you actually have it and use high doses like a pharmacological drug.
 
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