Labs from EOD Protocol

[GreenMachineX]

Greetings gentz,
I just wanted to post my labs and give some feedback on my protocol. This is on 22mg EOD test cyp with 12.5mg transdermal dhea and 6mg transdermal pregnenolone that I've been doing for 10 weeks. These were drawn 48 hours after my last injection when I should've done the next. It appears the transdermals aren't doing anything good, barely raising my dhea-s and definitely give anxiety. My sleep is much better on this than 50mg test twice per week, but I don't like my hct or hgb this high so I'll be dropping to 20mg EOD and likely be dropping dhea and preg completely. Any feedback is welcome.

 

[Cataceous]

I would just use some inexpensive DHEA tablets. I use the Natrol brand and 12.5 mg daily raises my DHEA-S level from ~100 to ~300 mcg/dL. Pregnenolone always gives me anxiety, so I don't use it. This may be because "its metabolite pregnenolone sulfate is a negative allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor".[R]

Your free testosterone suggests you have room for a decent dose reduction. What is your SHBG typically?

 

[GreenMachineX]

I would just use some inexpensive DHEA tablets. I use the Natrol brand and 12.5 mg daily raises my DHEA-S level from ~100 to ~300 mcg/dL. Pregnenolone always gives me anxiety, so I don't use it. This may be because "its metabolite pregnenolone sulfate is a negative allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor".[R]

Your free testosterone suggests you have room for a decent dose reduction. What is your SHBG typically?

Well, it wasn't the pregnenolone that gives anxiety. The preg makes me feel a little too calm actually. I'll have to try sublingual dhea again since I have it.

My shbg is always 12-15 if I recall correctly. Do you think I should reduce further than 20mg eod?

 

[gerardo]

Greetings gentz,
I just wanted to post my labs and give some feedback on my protocol. This is on 22mg EOD test cyp with 12.5mg transdermal dhea and 6mg transdermal pregnenolone that I've been doing for 10 weeks. These were drawn 48 hours after my last injection when I should've done the next. It appears the transdermals aren't doing anything good, barely raising my dhea-s and definitely give anxiety. My sleep is much better on this than 50mg test twice per week, but I don't like my hct or hgb this high so I'll be dropping to 20mg EOD and likely be dropping dhea and preg completely. Any feedback is welcome.
View attachment 13254View attachment 13255

Do you do subq or IM injections? With which syringes and needle?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Do you do subq or IM injections? With which syringes and needle?

It's between shallow IM to subq with an insulin pin.

 

[gerardo]

It's between shallow IM to subq with an insulin pin.

I also have a high hematocrit and I am looking to see if subq injections can help increase hematocrit in those who have a body fat above. I used Nebido for 1 year IM deep every 3 months. I had no problems with hematocrit but due to this cycle I ended up changing to subq cypionate but I had to stop because the hematocrit went up too much and my pressure also goes up. Thank

 

[Cataceous]

...
My shbg is always 12-15 if I recall correctly. Do you think I should reduce further than 20mg eod?

Eventually, but if you go down slower then you might avoid the withdrawal symptoms. So 20 mg EOD is good for starters. The free T calculators and your measured result suggest that you could drop to as low as 16 mg and still have mid-range results. If you were still having blood count issues at such a low dose then you might consider experimenting with daily use of a propionate ester blend, which allows for an even lower dose while preserving the peak serum testosterone level. This kind of protocol allows me to thrive on the equivalent of 6 mg T cypionate daily.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I also have a high hematocrit and I am looking to see if subq injections can help increase hematocrit in those who have a body fat above. I used Nebido for 1 year IM deep every 3 months. I had no problems with hematocrit but due to this cycle I ended up changing to subq cypionate but I had to stop because the hematocrit went up too much and my pressure also goes up. Thank

So subq made your hct go up???

Eventually, but if you go down slower then you might avoid the withdrawal symptoms. So 20 mg EOD is good for starters. The free T calculators and your measured result suggest that you could drop to as low as 16 mg and still have mid-range results. If you were still having blood count issues at such a low dose then you might consider experimenting with daily use of a propionate ester blend, which allows for an even lower dose while preserving the peak serum testosterone level. This kind of protocol allows me to thrive on the equivalent of 6 mg T cypionate daily.

Gotcha. Perhaps that's why my blood pressure is still pretty high too. Maybe I'll just drop to 18mg now. Perhaps it will help me feel more relaxed.

 

[gerardo]

So subq made your hct go up???

Gotcha. Perhaps that's why my blood pressure is still pretty high too. Maybe I'll just drop to 18mg now. Perhaps it will help me feel more relaxed.

I'm not sure it was the subq, but it could also be the type of ester .. I tried subq EOD, ED, E3D .. So I'm still not sure what's going on with my hematocrit.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Eventually, but if you go down slower then you might avoid the withdrawal symptoms. So 20 mg EOD is good for starters. The free T calculators and your measured result suggest that you could drop to as low as 16 mg and still have mid-range results. If you were still having blood count issues at such a low dose then you might consider experimenting with daily use of a propionate ester blend, which allows for an even lower dose while preserving the peak serum testosterone level. This kind of protocol allows me to thrive on the equivalent of 6 mg T cypionate daily.

I might just drop all the way to 16mg eod. My sleep was a lot better for a while, but about 2 weeks ago I started waking up way too early again. How quickly do effects change with these tiny every other day dose adjustments? Got a straight 5 hours sleep last night, but that's just not enough for me.

I also wonder if skipping a few injections would bring down my levels quicker and help me adapt to a new dose faster?

 

[GreenMachineX]

I'm not sure it was the subq, but it could also be the type of ester .. I tried subq EOD, ED, E3D .. So I'm still not sure what's going on with my hematocrit.

At what doses did you have problems with hematocrit? What have you tried?

 

[Cataceous]

I might just drop all the way to 16mg eod. My sleep was a lot better for a while, but about 2 weeks ago I started waking up way too early again. How quickly do effects change with these tiny every other day dose adjustments? Got a straight 5 hours sleep last night, but that's just not enough for me.

I also wonder if skipping a few injections would bring down my levels quicker and help me adapt to a new dose faster?

Skipping one or two doses would be sufficient to drop levels more quickly. After that you just need to wait 2-3 months for your body to adapt. Don't be surprised if you feel worse before you feel better, but try to see it through.

 

[gerardo]

At what doses did you have problems with hematocrit? What have you tried?

lately low doses like 15 mg cypionate eod subq increases my hematocrit

 

[GreenMachineX]

lately low doses like 15 mg cypionate eod subq increases my hematocrit

Wow. How high is it? And your hemoglobin?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Skipping one or two doses would be sufficient to drop levels more quickly. After that you just need to wait 2-3 months for your body to adapt. Don't be surprised if you feel worse before you feel better, but try to see it through.

Thanks. Any thoughts on that 18 hemoglobin or 51.9 hematocrit? The new consensus is that's not an emergency blood donation, correct? Not that it's okay long term either of course...

 

[Cataceous]

Thanks. Any thoughts on that 18 hemoglobin or 51.9 hematocrit? The new consensus is that's not an emergency blood donation, correct? Not that it's okay long term either of course...

That's the impression I'm getting too: at those levels it's not an emergency, but it's not something you want long-term.

 

[gerardo]

Wow. How high is it? And your hemoglobin?

Hematocrit is 53% and hemoglobin 16.8. Iron and ferritin are at the low limit and so I am worried about having phlebotomy. So I had to go to TRT to see what I am going to do.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Hematocrit is 53% and hemoglobin 16.8. Iron and ferritin are at the low limit and so I am worried about having phlebotomy. So I had to go to TRT to see what I am going to do.

That hematocrit sounds more like you were dehydrated with that hemoglobin...

 

[gerardo]

That hematocrit sounds more like you were dehydrated with that hemoglobin...

I do not believe. I drink a lot of water. I went to a hematologist and she asked for some tests to see if I have polycythemia vera, because when iron and ferritin fall to a low level and the hematocrit rises above 50 you need to see it. My erythropoiesis is normal and after 50 I will have polycythemia vera? Now I'm going to do the JAK2 gene mutation test to see this. What a disheartening thing and look, I only had a phlebotomy in my whole life

 

[GreenMachineX]

I do not believe. I drink a lot of water. I went to a hematologist and she asked for some tests to see if I have polycythemia vera, because when iron and ferritin fall to a low level and the hematocrit rises above 50 you need to see it. My erythropoiesis is normal and after 50 I will have polycythemia vera? Now I'm going to do the JAK2 gene mutation test to see this. What a disheartening thing and look, I only had a phlebotomy in my whole life

When is the follow up blood test?

I think I'm going to drop to what your using, 15mg EOD. After thinking it through, if 22mg eod took me up to 51.9 hct and 18.1 hgb after only 8 weeks, I'm sure it was going to keep climbing and I don't want to end up in a dangerous situation by the next labs. By now I'm to the point of prefer to start too low and have to come up. @Cataceous any thoughts on that? When I went to donate a few days ago, they told me my hgb was 19.1 and was almost denied, 2 weeks after my labs were drawn. So, in 2 weeks, my hgb jumped a whole point...

I think I've also noticed that when my levels were too high, I had this strange chest sensation when I would take a deep breath and bizarre eye twitching. Since lowering my dose this past week, both are improving.