Vince
Super Moderator
Basically what it’s saying is, good thyroid levels can help shbg
High TT, low FT, high SHBG
- Thread starter Kayakboy
- Start date
Are you familiar with Sanesco and their neurotransmitter approach to balancing hormones?
DorianGray
Active Member
I haven't heard of them before but just looked on their website. They focus on HPA axis balance using a proprietary evidence based model. They don't list any studies on efficacy of their model however. Seems interesting though. What is the approach to treatment, nutritional, TRT? Have you had success with them?
I've not had success like I want with anything yet. My Doc wants to try Enclomiphene only next. I haven't decided yet.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
How to lower your sex hormone binding globulin
This is part II of: Role of Estradiol and Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Men HOW TO TREAT ELEVATED SHBG 1.Remove any of the agents or treat the condition, which lead to elevated SHBG. In some cases it may be difficult to identify the cause of elevated SHBG. 2.Use anti-aromatase meds such...
www.excelmale.com
IronKnight
Member
A factor that I have noticed to be VERY powerful and is not mentioned in most threads is the following:
- If your SHBG is too low you can increase it by: Eating keto/low carb, fasting every other day and/or doing periodic fasting (I got mine up to 84 this way)
- If your SHBG is too high you can lower it by eating more carbohydrates, fasting less, etc. (I can get mine in the 20s this way)
I believe this is because carbs raise insulin and insulin lowers SHBG.
When insulin is near zero (i.e. while you fast), SHBG increases very substantially.
Worth a shot imho, looking forward to your results!
- If your SHBG is too low you can increase it by: Eating keto/low carb, fasting every other day and/or doing periodic fasting (I got mine up to 84 this way)
- If your SHBG is too high you can lower it by eating more carbohydrates, fasting less, etc. (I can get mine in the 20s this way)
I believe this is because carbs raise insulin and insulin lowers SHBG.
When insulin is near zero (i.e. while you fast), SHBG increases very substantially.
Worth a shot imho, looking forward to your results!
Blackhawk
Member
Iron Knight, can you share any reference/link for this? Anecdotally it may be the case for me right now. I went keto a couple months ago an just got results from labs drawn last week. Alarming that SHBG is 73. Never been that high before.
IronKnight
Member
Obviously, health is first, you can use clean carbs and still get SHBG down. You also don't have to eat high carb all the time either, perhaps 3-4 higher carb meals x week will be enough to do the trick for some people (vs. being on keto all the time).
Btw, another powerful way to push SHBG down is the use of a higher T dose in a single shot, the spike in T will push SHBG down.
If low SHBG problems: Consider more frequent, smaller dose injections
If high SHBG problems: Consider less frequent, higher dose injections
Re references to this in the literature:
"While sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG) production in the liver is mainly regulated by sex steroids and thyroxine, insulin is suggested to be another important regulator"
care.diabetesjournals.org
NOTE: Everybody is different and this will require experimentation, my point is that SHBG can be manipulated in a number of ways, and it does not necessarily have to be done in an unhealthy way.
Btw, another powerful way to push SHBG down is the use of a higher T dose in a single shot, the spike in T will push SHBG down.
If low SHBG problems: Consider more frequent, smaller dose injections
If high SHBG problems: Consider less frequent, higher dose injections
Re references to this in the literature:
"While sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG) production in the liver is mainly regulated by sex steroids and thyroxine, insulin is suggested to be another important regulator"
Associations of Total Testosterone and Sex Hormone–Binding Globulin Levels With Insulin Sensitivity in Middle-Aged Finnish Men
While sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG) production in the liver is mainly regulated by sex steroids and thyroxine, insulin is suggested to be another importan
NOTE: Everybody is different and this will require experimentation, my point is that SHBG can be manipulated in a number of ways, and it does not necessarily have to be done in an unhealthy way.
There is an actual study with human liver cells that shows insulin has nothing to do with it. Liver converts excess glucose/fructose to lipids and that process competitively inhibits the SHBG production in liver - it can't do both at high rates:
Too much sugar turns off gene that controls the effects of sex steroids
Monosaccharide-induced lipogenesis regulates the human hepatic sex hormone–binding globulin gene
The key point is that excess fast sugar is required so that it is not utilized but converted to fat and I have yet to see an actual intervention study (not observational correlation studies that mean nothing - correlation is not causation) or even anecdotal report that someone with a naturally high SHBG (not high just because of a new keto diet) successfully decreased it to normal range by eating 'clean carbs'.
Too much sugar turns off gene that controls the effects of sex steroids
Monosaccharide-induced lipogenesis regulates the human hepatic sex hormone–binding globulin gene
The key point is that excess fast sugar is required so that it is not utilized but converted to fat and I have yet to see an actual intervention study (not observational correlation studies that mean nothing - correlation is not causation) or even anecdotal report that someone with a naturally high SHBG (not high just because of a new keto diet) successfully decreased it to normal range by eating 'clean carbs'.
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IronKnight
Member
We would need a high SHBG person to try.
Anecdotally, I can control my SHBG up or down using fasting, low carb or adding some higher carb meals. Less frequent, higher dose T injections should also help.
This effect is well documented in people doing keto, low carb or fasting (i.e. SHBG goes up), no "Using a mouse model and human liver cell cultures" (as in your link), but real people.
The reverse is also documented to be true: Increase carbs and your SHBG will go down. This is a documented fact in humans, not speculation from a single study in mice.
Will this help someone with a naturally high SHBG (not high because of keto, fasting, etc.)?
If I was one of those people, I would definitely give this idea a shot. Adding some more rice, potatoes or oats, and measuring SHBG before vs. after would indicate if such an approach works for a particular individual.
If somebody is unwilling to mess with their diet, increasing the T dose could be a valid alternative approach (i.e. increase T dosage until free T looks ok / the person feels good).
Either way, there is hope
Anecdotally, I can control my SHBG up or down using fasting, low carb or adding some higher carb meals. Less frequent, higher dose T injections should also help.
This effect is well documented in people doing keto, low carb or fasting (i.e. SHBG goes up), no "Using a mouse model and human liver cell cultures" (as in your link), but real people.
The reverse is also documented to be true: Increase carbs and your SHBG will go down. This is a documented fact in humans, not speculation from a single study in mice.
Will this help someone with a naturally high SHBG (not high because of keto, fasting, etc.)?
If I was one of those people, I would definitely give this idea a shot. Adding some more rice, potatoes or oats, and measuring SHBG before vs. after would indicate if such an approach works for a particular individual.
If somebody is unwilling to mess with their diet, increasing the T dose could be a valid alternative approach (i.e. increase T dosage until free T looks ok / the person feels good).
Either way, there is hope
My SHBG is naturally high, on average around 70 nmol/L (range 10-50) and I was never able to get it in normal range even with unhealthy diet full of sugar and low physical activity and with obvious body fattening. The study I posted literally tells you that in human liver cells you have to make them produce fat (triglycerides) from sugar to decrease SHBG substantially. For people like me, even fast carbs are not sufficient, and 'clean carbs' will achieve even less. That is why, this 'method' of decreasing SHBG as I said is well known but is not a solution.
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Vince
Super Moderator
You probably already had your your thyroid tested? Some believe that good thyroid levels, can help your shbg levels.
I had the thyroid tested - nothing out of the ordinary. My free testosterone is typically low normal to middle normal range (the total testosterone is in upper normal), and the SHBG is high, which is exactly the topic of this thread. All endocrinologists that I went to could not find the reason for high SHBG.
I know methods to increase free testosterone: Anastrozole, injectable HCG etc but the sides are not acceptable to me.
I know methods to increase free testosterone: Anastrozole, injectable HCG etc but the sides are not acceptable to me.
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IronKnight
Member
re "I was never able to get it in normal range even with unhealthy diet full of sugar and low physical activity and with obvious body fattening":
How did that experiment look like? i.e. example diet day for that? and what was SHBG before vs. after?
How does your regular diet look like now? i.e. example diet now
What happens if you do any of the following? What does SHBG look like after 1-2 weeks of these?
Option 1) Go full keto
Option 2) Go low carb
Option 3) Fast every other day (or 3 days a week)
Option 4) Do time restricted feeding i.e. eat on a 4-8 hour window every day, fast for the rest of the time
If you are like most people, options 1-4 should *increase* your SHBG.
What happens if you do any of the following for 1-2 weeks? i.e. SHBG before vs. after
Option 1) Eat every 3-4 hours (even if low carb, that will keep you pumping insulin)
Option 2) Eat every 3-4 hours + throw some clean carbs (some oats, rice, potatoes or similar depending on your preferences) in some or all meals
Options 1 or 2 will *decrease* SHBG for most people.
Everybody is different, but you need to do the experiment properly to figure out if this will work for you or not.
For example: If you thow carbs but then fast for 16+ hours every day it's no wonder your SHBG remains high, etc. This is a very well documented side effect of fasting in the literature.
Fasting, keto, low carb => SHBG goes up in humans. This is one of the reasons some people quit keto.
Finally, what does your TRT protocol look like?
For example, the spike of 100mg of T x twice a week should help bring down your SHBG.
I hope some of these ideas help (you or anybody else with SHBG problems!), these are all well known approaches that work in humans, no mice studies required.
My advice:
1) Measure
2) Experiment
3) Measure again
Only that way you will find what works for you, everybody is different.
As I said, I can bring my SHBG to > 80 or < 30, using ONLY diet and changes in TRT protocol, and my liver parameters are quite healthy, so no need to risk your health in the process.
The whole concept that "SHBG is something you cannot change" is simply untrue, there's always something you can do and the effect of multiple interventions is extremely unlikely to be "zero".
How did that experiment look like? i.e. example diet day for that? and what was SHBG before vs. after?
How does your regular diet look like now? i.e. example diet now
What happens if you do any of the following? What does SHBG look like after 1-2 weeks of these?
Option 1) Go full keto
Option 2) Go low carb
Option 3) Fast every other day (or 3 days a week)
Option 4) Do time restricted feeding i.e. eat on a 4-8 hour window every day, fast for the rest of the time
If you are like most people, options 1-4 should *increase* your SHBG.
What happens if you do any of the following for 1-2 weeks? i.e. SHBG before vs. after
Option 1) Eat every 3-4 hours (even if low carb, that will keep you pumping insulin)
Option 2) Eat every 3-4 hours + throw some clean carbs (some oats, rice, potatoes or similar depending on your preferences) in some or all meals
Options 1 or 2 will *decrease* SHBG for most people.
Everybody is different, but you need to do the experiment properly to figure out if this will work for you or not.
For example: If you thow carbs but then fast for 16+ hours every day it's no wonder your SHBG remains high, etc. This is a very well documented side effect of fasting in the literature.
Fasting, keto, low carb => SHBG goes up in humans. This is one of the reasons some people quit keto.
Finally, what does your TRT protocol look like?
For example, the spike of 100mg of T x twice a week should help bring down your SHBG.
I hope some of these ideas help (you or anybody else with SHBG problems!), these are all well known approaches that work in humans, no mice studies required.
My advice:
1) Measure
2) Experiment
3) Measure again
Only that way you will find what works for you, everybody is different.
As I said, I can bring my SHBG to > 80 or < 30, using ONLY diet and changes in TRT protocol, and my liver parameters are quite healthy, so no need to risk your health in the process.
The whole concept that "SHBG is something you cannot change" is simply untrue, there's always something you can do and the effect of multiple interventions is extremely unlikely to be "zero".
No, T cream by itself. T cream caused some testes reduction but not bad.
IronKnight
Member
Here are a few more links, anecdotal evidence and additional references to studies documenting the relationship of carbs vs. SHBG (not a comprehensive list):
www.researchgate.net
www.marksdailyapple.com
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Changes in sex hormone-binding globulin and testosterone during weight loss and weight maintenance in abdominally obese men with the metabolic syndrome | Request PDF
Request PDF | Changes in sex hormone-binding globulin and testosterone during weight loss and weight maintenance in abdominally obese men with the metabolic syndrome | Mild hypoandrogenism in men, usually defined by low levels of testosterone, is a peculiar feature of abdominal obesity that...
www.researchgate.net
Dear Mark: Do I Need to Eat More, Testosterone Levels, HRV and Carbs | Mark's Daily Apple
For today's edition of Dear Mark, I'm answering three reader questions. First, if things are going well on a relatively low-calorie intake, should you
www.marksdailyapple.com
Inverse association between serum insulin and sex hormone-binding globulin in a population survey in Sweden
Obesity is associated with low levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). While the reason is not fully understood, we aimed to study the association between serum insulin and levels of SHBG in a random population.Between 2001 and 2005, a random sample ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
IronKnight, what you repeatedly don't understand is the required SIZE of the SHBG change for someone that has a naturally high SHBG above 70 nmol/L. The goal here is not simply to 'reduce SHBG' but to reduce it by about 30-40 nmol/L, which is about 50% reduction!
The topic of this thread is how to reduce SHBG by a LARGE amount and correspondingly increase free testosterone WITHOUT getting on TRT. Eating 'clean carbs' won't cut it and stuffing yourself with bad carbs will probably do it but you will get yourself diabetes. So this is NOT a solution and that's why nobody does it.
Getting on TRT, will decrease SHBG and if you inject testosterone, will increase free testosterone. The question here is whether there is another way of doing that without TRT for people like me with enough testosterone but low free testosterone due to high SHBG. Doing anabolic steroids or SARMS is not a solution either, it decreases both SHBG and total testosterone so free testosterone is not expected to increase. Proviron increases slightly free testosterone but not by a remarkable amount.
The topic of this thread is how to reduce SHBG by a LARGE amount and correspondingly increase free testosterone WITHOUT getting on TRT. Eating 'clean carbs' won't cut it and stuffing yourself with bad carbs will probably do it but you will get yourself diabetes. So this is NOT a solution and that's why nobody does it.
Getting on TRT, will decrease SHBG and if you inject testosterone, will increase free testosterone. The question here is whether there is another way of doing that without TRT for people like me with enough testosterone but low free testosterone due to high SHBG. Doing anabolic steroids or SARMS is not a solution either, it decreases both SHBG and total testosterone so free testosterone is not expected to increase. Proviron increases slightly free testosterone but not by a remarkable amount.
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tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
Even 2.5 is too high. 1 to 1.5 is better, though Ray Peat believes 0.4. I have bipolar illness and the lower the TSH, the better. Waiting on a full battery of tests from my urologist.
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