I started with gels, went to pellets, then went to injections, then back to gel (Atrevis base) and then back to injections. First gel on inner arm was not absorbing. Pellets I couldn't control and sometimes would pop out and you had a bump under your skin. Injections were good but I wanted to try Atrevis. Atrevis absorbed well and I liked but jacked up my DHT way too high. Now I'm back on injections. Trial and error.
Gels and creams are really wild ponies for me. Things seem out of control on them. I had a good, but very brief experience with cream over a year ago. Since then, I have tried and failed numerous times to make it work. I believe I absorb well, so I don't think my issues are that I am hypogonadal on them.
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
Were there symptoms you associated with the high DHT or was it just that the values were too high for your comfort?
Well both. But I may not be able to find creams here? Do you prefer creams?
Not me specifically, but it seems the consensus is that high % creams are way better than gels.
Systemlord
Member
I went from gels to injections, to creames and then to Jatenzo and never looked back.
Did the cream jack up your DHT on other parts of the body as much as on the scrotum?
BPH increase, E was also very high. Poor EQ. Generally not feeling great. My DHT was over 4 times the upper limit.
DHT did come down when not on scrotum, but still very elevated and my free T dropped significantly when not on scrotum.
Thanks for replying. I'm pretty sure I posted this somewhere on these forums but when I was on 200mg/day (2 clicks AM and 2 clicks PM) of the compounded cream (I think Empower calls it the HRT base, it wasn't the Atrevis), my DHT at trough (12 hours post injection) was 500ng/dL.
What reallly surprised me was that after dropping to half the dose (1 click AM and PM), my DHT was still 360ng/dL. I did feel absolutely amazing for a few days about 1 week after dropping my dose, best I've ever felt in my entire life, but unfortunately quickly went back to feeling just ok.
In retrospect I think it might've been from temporary Dopamine receptor resensitization after dropping Test levels, rather than purely a specific hormonal state that I could sustain pretty much forever. Had I been able to sustain that state I would've gladly taken the risk of running 6x the range of DHT levels long term because it was the first time in my life I felt good. But I can't think there aren't any consequences to running insanely high DHT levels for decades on end.
I think a lot of people don't understand that just because there aren't any studies showing the negative impact of something, it doesn't mean there is no impact. How does the saying go? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence?
Interestingly though, libido and EQ were through the roof and my E2 was significantly lower on paper than it had ever been with injections, without accounting for DHT's antagonistic action vs Estrogen at the receptor level.
Your DHT sounds a lot like mine. I was only on two clicks per day and my DHT was in that 360 range also.
Are you on injections? My DHT on injections is 100ng/dL (60 mg T cyp twice per week). Not as bad as 360 but still quite a bit over range. Started taking Pregnenlone to increase progesterone to hopefully lower my DHT a little. Also have some Pygeum.
My DHT on 18mg/day (126mg/week) of Test C was 120ng/dL, almost 2x the range even though TT and FT were both respectively only top of the range or just slightly higher. I've always converted a lot to DHT so it wasn't that much of a surprise that I would convert even more on the scrotal cream. Still...500ng/dL was a surprise.
I don't mind high-ish DHT levels. I think DHT is very important and might explain why I've always had good libido and erections, even when bloated like the Michelin man and completely lethargic in the midst of crippling depression. So I'm ok with twice the range, but not 8 times the range.
Pregnenolone helped with cognition and sent my libido through the stratosphere every time I tried it. Nothing has ever ramped up my libido like Preg, it's shocking. I doubt it's placebo because it wasn't an effect I was expecting at all or looking forward to, I was mostly taking it for cognition because I've been feeling increasingly dumber since starting TRT.
I'm back on 100mg/week of Test C in two 50mg injections. I felt pretty good for the first 3-4 weeks and then increasingly worse for the last 2. I'm about to try low dose Anastrozole. I tried it in the past and woke up the next day after 0.125mg of it feeling amazing. Unfortunately I didn't feel that good the next few days afterwards and immediately bailed on the experiment because of all the talk about how AI's are literal poison and will single-handedly ruin your life in every possible imaginable way.
But at this point I'm pretty sure high E2 doesn't work for me and I think I really need to give controling E2 another shot. I've also read the studies myself (not just the abstracts) and come to realize that the people hysterically crusading against AI's have zero understanding of science or research methodology. Are AI's inherently bad for you at any dosage? It's possible, but so far nothing at all points to that being true. People are just quoting studies using 28 times more of the medication than I'm going to try, so maybe it won't be the end of the world after all
We sound very much alike re DHT and E. I'm on and off HCG. I have better EQ without it but then my testicles and flaccid hang are small. I believe E can be an issue. I have both arimidex and aromasin and have trialed some here and there in search of the perfect spot. Im taking Pure pregnenolone which is immediate release and converts to progesterone well.
What were your results with trying to fine tune an AI?
For Preg I was using Empower's slow release micronized capsules. I had good results with it but decided to get off until I can fine tune just Test first
My results have been all over the place. E too high and too low. There was a longtime poster here (Phil?) who measured his E by his EQ. When strong nighttime wood happened, that was the right E spot. Ive tried to mimic that but its hard (pun intended LOL) to do.
That would make sense. When I took a small dose of Adex (0.125mg) a year ago or so, I woke up the next day with the strongest erection ever since my teenage years, it just pointed straight parallel to the floor and wouldn't go down for at least 10m.
I've never had problems with erections to the point where I can't get hard anymore, even when completely bloated and lethargic, but there's still a significant difference.
I've also been doing Kegel exercises for years nonstop and they make a huge difference, I highly recommend them. I'm very skeptical of everything and my initial assumption is that everything is pretty much bullshit until demonstrated otherwise, but that stuff is for real.
I'm going to start low dose Adex Monday morning after I get my E2 sensitive levels tested at trough to have a baseline. Fingers crossed
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
I've read some variation of this exact report a hundred times now. The initial positive reaction rarely leads to a desirable long-term result though. Is it possible that there is a transient effect of taking an AI and rapidly increasing the T/E2 or DHT/E2 ratio that is both wonderful and short-lived? If that is a near universal phenomenon, it would be a mistake to read too much into it, and conclude for example that it means you should take an AI regularly.
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