Dosing clomid two or three times daily

[Insight35]

Hi guys,

I was wondering whether dividing a daily dosage in 2 or 3 dosages would improve clomids effectiveness and reduce the side effects of the zuclomiohene ester.

Enclomiphene has a half life of about 8 hours whereas the zuclomiphene has a much longer half life. I remember reading that people using clomid for a longer period had much higher levels of zuclomiphene vs enclomiphene.

Perhaps taking only 25mg weekly, but divided in 2 or 3 daily dosages(like 1 or 2 mg every 8-12 hours) would work much better.

Like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Vince Carter]

So what would be the point of 1-2mg three times per day? Would that even be an clinically effective dose?
In the end Clomid is crap and guys that do well on it are called Unicorns for a reason. The Estgrogen and SHBG increases aren't worth it.

 

[Insight35]

So what would be the point of 1-2mg three times per day? Would that even be an clinically effective dose?
In the end Clomid is crap and guys that do well on it are called Unicorns for a reason. The Estgrogen and SHBG increases aren't worth it.

I believe the minimum effective dosage is twice weekly 12.5mg which is 25mg a week. By keeping the dose low the zuclomiphene side effects are obviously smaller. By taking the clo.id three times daily which keeps the enclomiphene level stable there might be a possibility of better results.

I read people complaining a lot of times about increased estrogen on clomid. Well increased testosterone leads to more estrogen. That is not specific to clomid. Does clomid raise e2 more than standard TRT? I dont know.

An increase in SHBG is not necesarilly bad. In fact it can be a good thing.

I admit that I have read a lot of bad stories about clomid. Clomid is in no way a perfect drug. What we can do is to use in away to minimize side effects. Perhaps then we can appreciate clomid more.

I see lots of guys going from 100-200 total testosterone going to a 700-100 level. Perhaps a 500-700 level is all we need to feel good.

Take as low a dosage as possible and take the clomid 2-3 times a day to reduces the side effects.

 

[Cataceous]

...
I read people complaining a lot of times about increased estrogen on clomid. Well increased testosterone leads to more estrogen. That is not specific to clomid. Does clomid raise e2 more than standard TRT? I dont know.
...

The answer is "yes", there's more to it. It's already been demonstrated that hCG acutely stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells. Therefore it's quite likely that prolonged elevation of LH caused by Clomid leads to the same effect. Additionally, zuclomiphene itself is estrogenic, which contributes to similar side effects.

The clinical trials demonstrating the effectiveness of Androxal did not need to resort to multiple daily doses to achieve decent responses.

 

[D007Domo]

Insight, interesting idea. I do not have any basis for arguing one way or the other. You should give it a try and let us know how it goes.

 

[Insight35]

The answer is "yes", there's more to it. It's already been demonstrated that hCG acutely stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells. Therefore it's quite likely that prolonged elevation of LH caused by Clomid leads to the same effect. Additionally, zuclomiphene itself is estrogenic, which contributes to similar side effects.

The clinical trials demonstrating the effectiveness of Androxal did not need to resort to multiple daily doses to achieve decent responses.

I have read some opinions that the zuclomiphene ester somehow makes the hpta more sensitive though admittetly if that is true, we need to to know how much is too much.

The guys taking clomid are usually doing this to preserve fertility. Its either using a serm like clomid or doing trt with hcg. No other way possible.

I would agree that a too high level of LH chronically is not a good idea, but do people on low dosages of clomid have hgher than normal LH and FSH levels?

Another thing is that people that are secondary have either lowish LH and/or FSH OR their bodies dont respond adequately to the LH/FSH signal. An increased LH and FSH might correct this.

Besides a too high estrogen can be tackled with adex.

Like I wrote before, clomid is definitely not a perfect drug. A lot of young patients will still try it. Might as well keep the dosage as low as possible and take it three times daily to keep the enclomiphene level stable.

Well Androxal, pure enclomiphene is not available unfortunately legally. Androxal had no zuclomiphene and therefore comparing it to clomid is somewhat comparing apples to oranges. I do get your point about the effectiveness of androxal which was only taken once daily. Remember that people taking clomid often have quite good levels of testosterone yet they don't feel well. Perhaps by keeping the enclomiphene level stable, there is antagonism with the zuclomiphene.

 

[Cataceous]

...
I would agree that a too high level of LH chronically is not a good idea, but do people on low dosages of clomid have higher than normal LH and FSH levels?
...

In theory with a low enough Clomid dose you wouldn't have to have excessive LH, but more often than not guys posting results while on Clomid seem to have relatively elevated values.

...
Besides a too high estrogen can be tackled with adex.
...

Estradiol created intratesticularly tends to be resistant to AI use. And AIs do nothing for the estrogenic effects of zuclomiphene.

Well Androxal, pure enclomiphene is not available unfortunately legally. ...

Yes it is: Pharma-Grade Enclomiphene now available

... Remember that people taking clomid often have quite good levels of testosterone yet they don't feel well. Perhaps by keeping the enclomiphene level stable, there is antagonism with the zuclomiphene.

I'm skeptical of the "antagonism" part, but the possibility of better results with more constant levels of enclomiphene is a hypothesis that could be tested.