Disappointing Results

[GreenMachineX]

Got my testosterone and CBC results from 5mg daily, sub-q/shallow IM.

Testosterone Total 260 (250-1100) MS ng/dL
Free Testosterone 45 (35-155) Dialysis pg/mL
RBC 5.6 (4.6-5.8)
HGB 16.7 (13.2-17.1)
HCT 48.5 (38.5-50)

This test was in trough. Perhaps this is why my sleep is suffering so bad. So, 10mg daily shallow IM only had me at very top of range, but 5mg has me at low end of range. Guess i need to try 7mg again. The problem is my HCT and HGB are already getting up there and I'm at the low end of normal. Any thoughts?

 

[Fortunate]

Got my testosterone and CBC results from 5mg daily, sub-q/shallow IM.

Testosterone Total 260 (250-1100) MS ng/dL
Free Testosterone 45 (35-155) Dialysis pg/mL
RBC 5.6 (4.6-5.8)
HGB 16.7 (13.2-17.1)
HCT 48.5 (38.5-50)

This test was in trough. Perhaps this is why my sleep is suffering so bad. So, 10mg daily shallow IM only had me at very top of range, but 5mg has me at low end of range. Guess i need to try 7mg again. The problem is my HCT and HGB are already getting up there and I'm at the low end of normal. Any thoughts?

How do you feel in general?

 

[Systemlord]

The problem is my HCT and HGB are already getting up there and I'm at the low end of normal. Any thoughts?

Why is that a problem, I mean a small elevation may not be a bad thing. The last time I checked my HCT and HGB, 53% and 18.4, none of my doctors are concerned because blood pressure is amazing and lack of symptoms is telling them my body can handle it without issues.

Stroke-Related Mortality at Different Altitudes: A 17-Year Nationwide Population-Based Analysis From Ecuador.

 

[GreenMachineX]

How do you feel in general?

Irritable, can't sleep well, mood is mostly flat. But I didn't feel great when it was top of range either.

 

[Systemlord]

Irritable, can't sleep well, mood is mostly flat. But I didn't feel great when it was top of range either.

I believe a good portion of men continuing to have issues on injections has to do with static hormone levels which can overstimulate the CNS, similar to men having issues on HCG versus the natural pulsatility of LH.

I need my hormones to rise and fall rapidly or I feel overstimulated.

 

[Fortunate]

@GreenMachineX, I vaguely recall discussing it with you, but I can’t remember if you ever tried Natesto? If not, you should consider it.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@GreenMachineX, I vaguely recall discussing it with you, but I can’t remember if you ever tried Natesto? If not, you should consider it.

Yeah, we've talked about it before. I'm going to try 6 or 7mg first, then try that.

 

[sammmy]

Irritable, can't sleep well, mood is mostly flat. But I didn't feel great when it was top of range either.

You could try the medicinal mushroom Reishi: 3 grams micellin powder (not an extract) in a cup of water before bed. It has a calming hypnotic properties, will improve sleep and maybe irritability.

It is typically taken as an immune stimulant and for "longevity".

 

[GreenMachineX]

Going over my labs from my other doses and for more clarity. .. results with time frame posted below...

Quest Diagnostics Total Mass Spectometry
10mg daily trough, total T 550 (250-1100) 6 weeks
10mg daily 5 hours post, total T 664 (250-1100) 9w
10mg daily...3 weeks
7mg daily...no test 4w
5mg daily trough, total T 414 (250-1100) 2w
5mg daily trough, total T 3459 (250-1100) 2w (error)

6 days after last 5mg injection 337 (250-1100)

6 months on 5mg daily 260 (250-1100)

For reference, below are the free testosterone results corresponding with the above dose.

Quest Diagnostics Free Testosterone Dialysis
10mg daily trough, 147 (35-155) 6 weeks
10mg daily trough, 174 (35-155) 9 weeks
7mg daily...no test 4 weeks
5mg daily trough, 105 (35-155) 2 weeks
5mg daily trough, 1232 (35-155) (Error) 2 weeks

6 days after last 5mg injection: 64 (35-155)

6 months on 5mg daily 45 (35-155)

So, after dropping from 7mg to 5mg, I'm guessing I didn't wait long enough for accurate results and my testosterone was still showing levels leftover from 7mg daily. All of those Labs are with shallow IM only, except the labs most recent Wirth 6 months on 5mg daily. Going by this, would 7mg be appropriate to try?

 

[Willyt]

For the latest test, how many days were you on on the 5mg protocol? I bet your E2 was low too

7-8mg looks like possible sweet spot for you. But you need to give it a chance for 6-8 weeks. Resist the urge to tinker

Either that or maybe 5mg as base and then add touch of cream for daily morning/early afternoon spike

 

[GreenMachineX]

For the latest test, how many days were you on on the 5mg protocol? I bet your E2 was low too

7-8mg looks like possible sweet spot for you. But you need to give it a chance for 6-8 weeks. Resist the urge to tinker

Either that or maybe 5mg as base and then add touch of cream for daily morning/early afternoon spike

I was on 5mg daily for months. And yeah, no tinkering lol

 

[JayD]

What would your total T be on say a protocol of 70-80mg total split MWF. Or just once per week?

 

[GreenMachineX]

What would your total T be on say a protocol of 70-80mg total split MWF. Or just once per week?

I've considered going back to that, but the last couple times I even tried to increase on daily to 12mg daily, I went to the ER. I've developed a crazy sensitivity the past year.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Going over my labs from my other doses and for more clarity. .. results with time frame posted below...

Quest Diagnostics Total Mass Spectometry
10mg daily trough, total T 550 (250-1100) 6 weeks
10mg daily 5 hours post, total T 664 (250-1100) 9w
10mg daily...3 weeks
7mg daily...no test 4w
5mg daily trough, total T 414 (250-1100) 2w
5mg daily trough, total T 3459 (250-1100) 2w (error)

6 days after last 5mg injection 337 (250-1100)

6 months on 5mg daily 260 (250-1100)

For reference, below are the free testosterone results corresponding with the above dose.

Quest Diagnostics Free Testosterone Dialysis
10mg daily trough, 147 (35-155) 6 weeks
10mg daily trough, 174 (35-155) 9 weeks
7mg daily...no test 4 weeks
5mg daily trough, 105 (35-155) 2 weeks
5mg daily trough, 1232 (35-155) (Error) 2 weeks

6 days after last 5mg injection: 64 (35-155)

6 months on 5mg daily 45 (35-155)

So, after dropping from 7mg to 5mg, I'm guessing I didn't wait long enough for accurate results and my testosterone was still showing levels leftover from 7mg daily. All of those Labs are with shallow IM only, except the labs most recent Wirth 6 months on 5mg daily. Going by this, would 7mg be appropriate to try?

@Cataceous if I recall correctly, you said long term 5mg daily might drop me too low and looks like you were right. Do you agree that 6 or 7mg daily would likely be best to try? My goal is somewhere mid range free T.

For the record, I wrote 10mg up there, but that was really bouncing back and forth between 9mg and 10mg.

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous if I recall correctly, you said long term 5mg daily might drop me too low and looks like you were right. Do you agree that 6 or 7mg daily would likely be best to try? My goal is somewhere mid range free T.
...

It's certainly reasonable to increase to 6-7 mg daily and give it some time. If you continue to have difficulties then you might consider trying to achieve some daily variation in serum testosterone. The hypothesis is that some of testosterone's benefits stem from peak levels, while average or trough levels are more responsible for the problems. Using nasal gel, as suggested above, is one way to achieve this—with the added benefit of allowing HPTA function. An alternative is daily injections of a cypionate/propionate blend.

 

[Blackhawk]

I don't understand why you are so concerned over your HGB/HCT. They look just fine.

Were they above range before you dropped dose? It takes a very long time for then to lower based on natural attrition of RBCs.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I don't understand why you are so concerned over your HGB/HCT. They look just fine.

Were they above range before you dropped dose? It takes a very long time for then to lower based on natural attrition of RBCs.

They're fine now, but when I was on 9-10mg, hgb was over 18 and hct was 53.2.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

5mg daily, sub-q/shallow IM.

If you divide the typical dose of 100 mg/week by 7= 15 m/day

 

[GreenMachineX]

If you divide the typical dose of 100 mg/week by 7= 15 m/day

I wasn't sleeping a wink when I was using 10mg daily with free T at very top of range at trough.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I wasn't sleeping a wink when I was using 10mg daily with free T at very top of range at trough.

You can't ask much from an underdosed protocol, though