Can't sleep

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JimGainz

Active Member
Been down this road of insomnia as well. Tried a number of things. Sublingual pregnenolone at bedtime is the only thing that worked. And, it worked the first day. Now using 25mg am and pm.
I know this is an old thread but I am having symptoms described by others here and Defy recommended Pregnenalone a while ago - but I never started because I thought that HCG would help backfill some of those pathways. Are you still taking it and does it still work or does it lose its effect over time? Any withdrawal if stopped?
 

Gman86

Member
I know this is an old thread but I am having symptoms described by others here and Defy recommended Pregnenalone a while ago - but I never started because I thought that HCG would help backfill some of those pathways. Are you still taking it and does it still work or does it lose its effect over time? Any withdrawal if stopped?

Did defy recommend taking the pregnenolone before bed?

Pregnenolone is an interesting one. Some say to take it in the morning because it energizes them, and some say to take it before bed because it calms them and can help with sleep. I wish it was more clear which time of day to take pregnenolone. In currently trying to figure it out myself. Here’s a great podcast with dr crisler and Carl Lanore about pregnenolone that someone posted here that I’ve listened to about 3 times now. Crisler had all his patients start on 50mg of transdermal preg taken in the AM, according to this podcast


If u want something that’s more clear cut when to take and unanimously helps improve sleep I would look into supplementing with progesterone. It’s basically the body’s natural Valium, and can also help with anxiety. Preg sounds like it’s worth trying, but if ur looking for something that is well known to help with both anxiety and sleep, and isn’t so confusing as to what effects it’s gonna have person to person, progesterone is it.
 

JimGainz

Active Member
@JimGainz did defy specify which time of day to take the pregnenolone?
They did not (or rather I didn’t take notes on it). That recommendation was from two years ago when I was experiencing a lot of anxiety and insomnia – it turned out that it was mostly from dialing in my thyroid but I did note that they recommended DHEA and pregnenalone. . I know that the recommendation for DHEA was at night but I don’t know for sure about Preg.
 

Gman86

Member
They did not (or rather I didn’t take notes on it). That recommendation was from two years ago when I was experiencing a lot of anxiety and insomnia – it turned out that it was mostly from dialing in my thyroid but I did note that they recommended DHEA and pregnenalone. . I know that the recommendation for DHEA was at night but I don’t know for sure about Preg.

Ya DHEA is definitely at night from my understanding. But np, was jc. What’s ur plans in regards to trying to resolve the anxiety and sleep issues ur currently experiencing?
 

JimGainz

Active Member
Ya DHEA is definitely at night from my understanding. But np, was jc. What’s ur plans in regards to trying to resolve the anxiety and sleep issues ur currently experiencing?
I’m going to keep trying different things and keep a log of my experiences. This helps me piece together what is causing the problem. My initial concern was that it was from lowering the dose of nandrolone from about 110 mg/week to 50. My last log of anxiety/restlessness correlated to that and I’m doing the same thing now with the same symptoms. However, i don’t think it’s that alone. It’s probably a combination of outside stressors, taking a bit too much thyroid and caffeine, with perhaps some backfill hormone needs.

Yesterday I took an extra DHEA during the day as well as at night and slept better. Also, I noticed that if I have too much coffee right after my thyroid T3 pill I get really agitated. My dose / coffee drinking has always been the same but there may be something with lowering the nandrolone that makes me more susceptible to that because I never feel this way when I take nandrolone at higher doses. Could be all coincidental too.

I am going to call Defy today and see what they suggest.
 

Gman86

Member
I’m going to keep trying different things and keep a log of my experiences. This helps me piece together what is causing the problem. My initial concern was that it was from lowering the dose of nandrolone from about 110 mg/week to 50. My last log of anxiety/restlessness correlated to that and I’m doing the same thing now with the same symptoms. However, i don’t think it’s that alone. It’s probably a combination of outside stressors, taking a bit too much thyroid and caffeine, with perhaps some backfill hormone needs.

Yesterday I took an extra DHEA during the day as well as at night and slept better. Also, I noticed that if I have too much coffee right after my thyroid T3 pill I get really agitated. My dose / coffee drinking has always been the same but there may be something with lowering the nandrolone that makes me more susceptible to that because I never feel this way when I take nandrolone at higher doses. Could be all coincidental too.

I am going to call Defy today and see what they suggest.

I love people like u that are always experimenting and log their experiences. No offense to the people that stay on one protocol their whole life and just recite info from studies, they’re obv important, but it’s people like u that I much prefer that not only keep up with the latest research, but also experiment and implement their findings to see what works and doesn’t work in real life. Imo it’s people like u that progress HRT forward at a much more rapid rate, and should be greatly valued instead of judged for “always tinkering”. Looking forward to see what ends up resolving the anxiety and sleep issues. Thanks again for such detailed logs of everything and keeping us informed with frequent updates
 

GreenMachineX

Active Member
Have you tried the recommended protocol?

I have been suffering from insomnia for close to 5 years now and hardly sleep more than 90mins per cycle. Having got used to it, I just get up and either chill or eat a small meal etc. before returning to the bed for another cycle.

Typically accumulates 3 of such short cycles per night.

Tried all sorts of medications and supplements but none keeps me asleep for more than 3 hours (after triple-dosing some sleep meds).

Would be great if anyone could help!
are you on TRT?
 

JimGainz

Active Member
I’ve also had the same thing for a period of years – which for me involved crashing early and falling asleep immediately, but then being wide awake with my mind racing about 2 o’clock in the morning. A lot of this was brought on by a long commute and a stressful job which I have since alleviated through Covid to some degree but it still persists.

My sleep protocol consist of the following which have helped me a great deal.

- magnesium glyconate (Now brand) 200 mg
- DHEA nightly 25 mg
- Binaural beats app - the specific one is from Brainwave. They make a lot of different ones - I found the best success with their Neruo Athlete app and use the program Rest and Recover. I set it for 2 hours at a time or if I wake up at let’s say 3:30 or 4 am, I’ll use it for 40-60 minutes and it pretty much puts me in limbo for that time - time goes by so fast and I always wake up refreshed.
- THC gummies when I can get my hands on them. It’s so easy to get a medical marijuana card - I think I used quick message cards which was $145 for an online consult and they filed all the paperwork. The indica brand of marijuana (5mg) will knock me out for 4 hours straight.
- melatonin. I use Now brand - 3mg or a 5 mg timed release. I think the regular one works better.
 

JimGainz

Active Member
I’ve also had the same thing for a period of years – which for me involved crashing early and falling asleep immediately, but then being wide awake with my mind racing about 2 o’clock in the morning. A lot of this was brought on by a long commute and a stressful job which I have since alleviated through Covid to some degree but it still persists.

My sleep protocol consist of the following which have helped me a great deal.

- magnesium glyconate (Now brand) 200 mg
- DHEA nightly 25 mg
- Binaural beats app - the specific one is from Brainwave. They make a lot of different ones - I found the best success with their Neruo Athlete app and use the program Rest and Recover. I set it for 2 hours at a time or if I wake up at let’s say 3:30 or 4 am, I’ll use it for 40-60 minutes and it pretty much puts me in limbo for that time - time goes by so fast and I always wake up refreshed.
- THC gummies when I can get my hands on them. It’s so easy to get a medical marijuana card - I think I used quick message cards which was $145 for an online consult and they filed all the paperwork. The indica brand of marijuana (5mg) will knock me out for 4 hours straight.
- melatonin. I use Now brand - 3mg or a 5 mg timed release. I think the regular one works better.
Edit - it was Quick Med Cards not quick message cards. Siri typo. Here’s the link. Fast, Low-Priced Official Med Cards Online
 

GreenMachineX

Active Member
I’ve also had the same thing for a period of years – which for me involved crashing early and falling asleep immediately, but then being wide awake with my mind racing about 2 o’clock in the morning. A lot of this was brought on by a long commute and a stressful job which I have since alleviated through Covid to some degree but it still persists.

My sleep protocol consist of the following which have helped me a great deal.

- magnesium glyconate (Now brand) 200 mg
- DHEA nightly 25 mg
- Binaural beats app - the specific one is from Brainwave. They make a lot of different ones - I found the best success with their Neruo Athlete app and use the program Rest and Recover. I set it for 2 hours at a time or if I wake up at let’s say 3:30 or 4 am, I’ll use it for 40-60 minutes and it pretty much puts me in limbo for that time - time goes by so fast and I always wake up refreshed.
- THC gummies when I can get my hands on them. It’s so easy to get a medical marijuana card - I think I used quick message cards which was $145 for an online consult and they filed all the paperwork. The indica brand of marijuana (5mg) will knock me out for 4 hours straight.
- melatonin. I use Now brand - 3mg or a 5 mg timed release. I think the regular one works better.
I'm in the middle of figuring out that dhea is essential for my sleep. Not conclusive yet, but I have found it to be mandatory for some other things.
 

xcpatr922

Member
try PT-141. Something non-sexual advantage occurring to me after PT-141, much better sleep even after drinking coffee in the day, much better relaxing mood. I suspect this is due to PT-141 as this is the only thing that I add.

For sleep what really works for me from top:
low dose THC+CBD sleep gummy
benadryl
unisom
melatonin 10mg
(very rarely I took small xanax but very rarely, maybe 1/8 of pills in 6 months)

I use CPAP machine too for sleep apnea, but that has been 5-6 years.

I found also during TRT, the one that cause me not to sleep well is "low iron/ferritin".

Many times I sleep 9-11 hrs a day
 

MIP1950

Active Member
Some people find relief with very low dose quetiapine (as little as 6mg) 90 minutes before bedtime.

It's available by prescription, or at All Day Chemist.

Quetiapine for Insomnia - User Reviews - Drugs.com
Quetiapine(Serequel) is an atypical antipsychotic and though it can be purchased overseas, online, it's not something to play with. If someone is using it for sleep, likely it's prescribed. Amitryptiline, an old antidepressant, is another medication prescribed, off label, for sleep. We all know where we can purchase many pharmaceuticals for personal use, but because we can doesn't mean we should. I have treatment resistant bipolar, along with non-restorative sleep, so my psychiatrist suggested quetiapine, even though my history with it isn't good, including an auto accident, years ago, where I banged up my wife's van while driving under the influence of that medication.

Better to talk with your primary or get a recommendation to a psychiatrist and tell that person your story. I did see one other suggestion about legal CBD, if you live in a state where there is medical weed. Have yet to try it because I don't know if it might worsen bipolar. I sure don't need that.
 

GreenMachineX

Active Member
Honestly I’m not sure which time of day is best to take it. I have quite few anecdotes saved from guys using DHEA with great success, and some take it in the AM and some take it at night.
If I take it too close to bed, I end up waking up every hour. Right now I take it upon waking and early afternoon. But, everything seems to mess with my sleep so who knows.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I thought I would add to this thread.

I have read, people with dementia,
( Sundowning) have to reset their circadian rhythm. I wonder if it would work for anyone who's having difficulty sleeping.

They take melatonin at sunset and then 2 hours before bed. Someone with dementia must do this daily.
 
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