Anyone ever tried nattokinase to lower hematocrit?

[canmanagethis]

I'm only one person testing this, but I have been using nattokinase and nothing else daily for about 12 weeks, and it seems to bring down the hematocrit to within (barely) acceptable levels at 2000 FUA (one tablet) per day. I can't say I am taking it at exactly the same time of say, mostly mornings with my coffee and bagel. but it seems to be bringing me down from around 54 (before and then I had to donate blood, about every 4 months) to about 51 consistently without anything else and no donations. I can't remember where I had heard this being helpful with a TRT treatment, but what I would really like to know if there is anyone else doing it, and where they found a sweet spot. I've been tempted to double the dosage to 4000 FUA, and see if I can push it down just a hair more, but I can't find another person who's tried this. I do know this shouldn't be used if one is taking any blood pressure medication, as that is something is does as well, so it could be too much for someone doing that. i can't say my blood pressure moved much at this time, but it does seem a little lower (from say my normal 120 over 65 to about 110 over 70). Thoughts?

 

[52hoosier]

I tried it, but not consistently. It is blood thinner, so that needs to be thought through and researched. I still have some, so I need to try it again and do it every day. Sounds like you are getting some benefit, albeit a small one.

 

[ERO]

I am trying it as well and I will post again in a month or so when I get new blood work.

 

[JoeJ0eyJoeJoe]

For me the nattokinase did not have a noticeable effect on hemoglobin/hematocrit values in lab results. I have taken it for several years (2000 FUs daily) due to concerns about high levels and felt that it, along with omega-3 and low-dose aspirin would help prevent any complications of clotting that may occur with the higher viscosity blood.

I stopped the aspirin a couple of years ago due to minor erosions observed in my duodenum. Also I bled easily with the aspirin and subq injections too often resulted in bruising.

I have read that nattokinase not only lowers the viscosity but also helps to reverse plaque. I don’t know the science or truth behind that but trusted the source where I read it. (Here maybe? Nattokinase: A Promising Alternative in Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Diseases).

My HRT physician says my levels (hovering around 52ish) are similar to that of people who live in high altitudes and there is no higher incidence of clotting in those populations. Erythrocytosis is the term he uses, which is not the same as, or dangerous as, polycythemia at the numbers in my lab results. He says RBC count is high, but not the cell mass, and also I don’t have elevated platelet counts or WBC. Suggests I stop worrying, but it’s ok to take the supplements. ‍

 

[Reason]

I'm trying it. Started about a month ago. Let's see...

 

[Vince]

I believe people eat nattokinase (natto) for all the vitamin k that's in it?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Search results for: 'blog high hematocrit caused by testosterone replacement therapy trt how to lower and manage it'

www.discountedlabs.com

 

[andrewBwinter]

I've started taking a combo of both serra and nattao and I have noticed that it took longer for my arm to clot after my donation on Saturday. It appears to be working from that regard.

https://ca.iherb.com/pr/solaray-nattokinase-serrapeptase-30-vegcaps/23834

 

[BigTex]

I'm only one person testing this, but I have been using nattokinase and nothing else daily for about 12 weeks, and it seems to bring down the hematocrit to within (barely) acceptable levels at 2000 FUA (one tablet) per day. I can't say I am taking it at exactly the same time of say, mostly mornings with my coffee and bagel. but it seems to be bringing me down from around 54 (before and then I had to donate blood, about every 4 months) to about 51 consistently without anything else and no donations. I can't remember where I had heard this being helpful with a TRT treatment, but what I would really like to know if there is anyone else doing it, and where they found a sweet spot. I've been tempted to double the dosage to 4000 FUA, and see if I can push it down just a hair more, but I can't find another person who's tried this. I do know this shouldn't be used if one is taking any blood pressure medication, as that is something is does as well, so it could be too much for someone doing that. i can't say my blood pressure moved much at this time, but it does seem a little lower (from say my normal 120 over 65 to about 110 over 70). Thoughts?

I have seen research on Nattokinase and it is very positive. Started using it over a year ago. I do so many other things to lower lipids, blood pressure and even calcification of the heart valves. I just can't tell through blood testing positively that this helps. But like you said if it slightly helps it is worth taking so I still take is every morning.

Chen, Hongjie et al. “Nattokinase: A Promising Alternative in Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Diseases.” Biomarker insights vol. 13 1177271918785130. 5 Jul. 2018, doi:10.1177/1177271918785130

Ren NN, Chen HJ, Li Y, Mcgowan GW, Lin YG. [A clinical study on the effect of nattokinase on carotid artery atherosclerosis and hyperlipidaemia]. Zhonghua Yi Xue Za Zhi. 2017 Jul 11;97(26):2038-2042. Chinese. doi: 10.3760/cma.j.issn.0376-2491.2017.26.005. PMID: 28763875.

Also helps with osteoarthritis bone remodeling
Hjortnaes, J., Butcher, J., Figueiredo, J. L., Riccio, M., Kohler, R. H., Kozloff, K. M., Weissleder, R., & Aikawa, E. (2010). Arterial and aortic valve calcification inversely correlates with osteoporotic bone remodelling: a role for inflammation. European heart journal, 31(16), 1975–1984. Arterial and aortic valve calcification inversely correlates with osteoporotic bone remodelling: a role for inflammation

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am going to read this paper and get into details. This is a very interesting compound!

Chen, Hongjie et al. “Nattokinase: A Promising Alternative in Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Diseases.” Biomarker insights vol. 13 1177271918785130. 5 Jul. 2018, doi:10.1177/1177271918785130

 

[BigTex]

Thanks Nelson. I had previously read that paper. Which is why I use Nattokinase.

I did some blood testing a few weeks ago and got this

RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 6.42 H Reference Range: 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 20.2 H Reference Range: 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 58.5 H Reference Range: 38.5-50.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 176 Reference Range: 140-400 Thousand/uL

My PC wrote me an order to give blood at Gulf Coast Regional but I can't get in touch with anyone there for a week not to make an appointment. I also had to do a EKG at Methodist yesterday and ask to give blood there and they said I needed a doctor's order to give blood. I thought these people needed blood so badly,

Now on with the story, I started having tachycardia with a irregular heart rate last weekend. I was over 100bpm resting and hitting 130+ walking to the restroom. No other symptoms. So my wife had a big bottle of Metoprolol so I started on 50mg x 2. I could not get in to see my cardiologist until Friday. They ran an EGK and said I had a minor irregular heart rate that was not A-fib and good electrolytes so they think the red blood cell count might have been the cause. So they want me to give blood too but were shocked Methodist would not take me as they need blood badly. Anyone every had tachycardia from high RBC etc? I was at least told I could continue to work out.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am glad you had access to metoprolol.

I also have used Gulf Coast Regional. I would show up there with a copy of your doctor's order. The order is good for 2 years.

Please remind me (so that I do not have to scroll) your TRT regimen. How is your blood pressure? Who is your doctor?

Many cardiologists are not TRT friendly. I see the cardiologist that all of Lipshultz' guys see. He is not against TRT but will for sure have a problem with a hematocrit of 60.

Juan Carlos Plana, MD

713-798-0291

 

[BigTex]

My doctor sent a order to Gulf Coast So I guess I will just show up then. My doctor is Hector Ubaldo of Physicians of Katy. Nelson, I am taking 100mg of test cypionate every 10 days. I do 250iu of HCG on the 8th and 250iu on the 9th day of the cycle (ala Dr. Crisler)

Believe it or not, my cardiologist ( Dr. Khurram Nasir is very TRT friendly. He say they have a doctor at Methodist ( Smith?) that they work closely with referring to him cardiac patients that are androgen deficient. They suggested that I go to this guy but I live in Cypress and its a 50 mile drive to Methodist. I honestly hate going there because of the traffic. I will take a look at Dr. Plana. My wife has seen Dr. Phillip Burman when she has cardiac problems due to long covid. He seems to be a very knowledgeable buy and is at I-10 and Gessner. I am going to get a 2nd opinion from him on the 24rd.

Do you think blood donation will help a 60 hematocrit level?

Went out today and mowed the yard etc. 45 minutes of work and I made it. My heart rate only got up to 105 but I was kind of winded. I know the beta-blocker helped that a problem. But I recovered very quickly and only had to stop and rest 3 times for only 1 minute. I am going back to the guy tomorrow and instead of doing 45 second rest, I will do 3 minute + depending on how I feel.

Oh, Nelson....my blood pressure this morning was 121/68 with a 68 BPM HR.

The last time I had RBC done was 2017 by the same doctor

RED BLOOD CELL COUNT - 5.6
HEMOGLOBIN - 16.9
HEMATOCRIT - 50.9

I was taking 600mg of TU every 4 weeks then.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Therapeutic phlebotomy is the only way to bring a high hematocrit value like yours down. But one session may only bring it down by 3 points or so.

 

[BigTex]

Thanks Nelson, I finally got in contact with Gulf Coast Regional Blood Center after 7 calls in the past week. The did have my doctor's order and I will be there Monday afternoon. The Wife is going to donate blood as well. I am going to add some aerobic exercise back to my workout too. Haven't done any in a while because of knee pains but that is under control now. I also think I need to hydrate more when I go fasted to do blood work. I always do my last meal around 9pm the night before and do testing around 8am. I very little to drink during that time. I am going to make sure that before I got I will drink a minimum of 32oz of water.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Great. Let us know how it goes.

Try to get one of these panels after you give blood:

Blood Donation Panel

Blood Donation Panel This panel is designed to determine if: 1- Your blood donation or therapeutic phlebotomy was effective in lowering your high hematocrit without negatively affecting ferritin or iron. 2- It is safe to do another blood donation or the

www.discountedlabs.com

Good idea about hydrating well.

 

[BigTex]

Great price on all of that blood work Nelson. I may take up up on that one! I can just take the order to any Quest here in Houston?

Hey, how long after therapeutic phlebotomy should I wait to get tested?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Great price on all of that blood work Nelson. I may take up up on that one! I can just take the order to any Quest here in Houston?

Thanks. I hardly have any margin on that price to make it accessible to guys.

Yes, after you place an order, this is how you set up an appointment:

How to Make an Appointment for a Blood Draw at a Quest Diagnostics Lab Near You:​

After placing an lab test order on Discounted Labs, print the lab request form that we email you. Then proceed to select the lab near you as shown below.

Walk-ins are welcome but we suggest making an appointment online as some locations can have a wait time.

Here are the steps to get an appointment at the lab test centers near you after clicking the link provided below:

1. Click on the link below and then click "Schedule Appointment"
2. Click on "All Other Tests"
3. Choose from lab test centers with "Quest Diagnostics" in the name. Do not use locations with names not shown as Quest Diagnostics (they do not work with Discounted Labs)
4. Select the appropriate date and time for your blood work. Make sure you scroll down if you find no available appointments.
5. Allowing text message reminders will give you the flexibility to check in from your phone as soon as you arrive at the lab.
6. Do not give insurance information since your lab test order is self-pay and already pre-paid with Discounted Labs.
7. You will receive an email or text confirming your appointment.

Click here: MAKE AN APPOINTMENT AT A LAB NEAR YOU

Hey, how long after therapeutic phlebotomy should I wait to get tested?

I would do it right away just to see. You don't have to fast.

 

[BigTex]

Thanks again Nelson! I am scheduled to donate blood Monday afternoon. The testing you suggested works the same way as another local company I started using 2 years ago. Very inexpensive this way and convenient.

On another note, Nelson, you are doing a tremendous service to both guys and women. I have been on these boards since the early 1990's and this is by far the best. Tons of very good information here and lots of very knowledgeable members willing to donate their time to help. Kudo's!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Thanks again Nelson! I am scheduled to donate blood Monday afternoon. The testing you suggested works the same way as another local company I started using 2 years ago. Very inexpensive this way and convenient.

On another note, Nelson, you are doing a tremendous service to both guys and women. I have been on these boards since the early 1990's and this is by far the best. Tons of very good information here and lots of very knowledgeable members willing to donate their time to help. Kudo's!

Did you donate and retest? Update?