Anxiety and anger on TRT

[DS3]

That’s the reason many of us use doses as low as 50-60mg per week and do well.

Is your average TT ~400 ng/dL at this dosage?

 

[sh1973]

No 650-700ng day seven prior to shot

 

[DS3]

No 650-700ng day seven prior to shot

@Cataceous Is this TT possible with that low of a dosage? Seems unlikely.

 

[sh1973]

Pardon me, why the fuck would I lie about my labs? What possible fucking reason would
I have or anyone for that matter to do so? I’ve been on trt nearly 11 years and I think I know where my labs are. A 100mg per week has my trough seven days after a shot over a 1000ng

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous Is this TT possible with that low of a dosage? ...

Surely possible, though seemingly a much higher response than average. It depends in part on the apparent half-life of cypionate for him. The six milligrams per day of testosterone is right around what the average man makes naturally, but this average man sees a daily peak T level right around sh1973's weekly trough level.

@sh1973: Did you say you'd tried daily or EOD dosing at one point? If so, what serum testosterone did you achieve and at what dose?

 

[sh1973]

Dr Saya had me try eod at one point and my levels just kept climbing like a buildup effect. Dr Saya Said I was clearly a outlier with response. I did 20mg eod and my levels were over 1300ng on cypionate. This obviously is the reason why I can get by with such low doses. I’ve checked my peak 3 days after a 100mg injection and I was well over 1500ng. Also I briefly tried 200mg every two weeks and had a two week trough of 840ng. I’ve talked to you several times on here and on peaks site in the past regarding low dosing. You also have to consider my shbg levels range from the mid 50s to the 70s.

 

[sh1973]

This is seven days after my shot on Xyosted 100mg enanthate subQ

 

[Gman86]

Dr Saya had me try eod at one point and my levels just kept climbing like a buildup effect. Dr Saya Said I was clearly a outlier with response. I did 20mg eod and my levels were over 1300ng on cypionate. This obviously is the reason why I can get by with such low doses. I’ve checked my peak 3 days after a 100mg injection and I was well over 1500ng. Also I briefly tried 200mg every two weeks and had a two week trough of 840ng. I’ve talked to you several times on here and on peaks site in the past regarding low dosing. You also have to consider my shbg levels range from the mid 50s to the 70s.

Was this all while using empower’s cypionate?

 

[sh1973]

No I don’t use compounded cypionate. Always used westward or Pfizer

 

[Cataceous]

Dr Saya had me try eod at one point and my levels just kept climbing like a buildup effect. Dr Saya Said I was clearly a outlier with response. I did 20mg eod and my levels were over 1300ng on cypionate. This obviously is the reason why I can get by with such low doses. I’ve checked my peak 3 days after a 100mg injection and I was well over 1500ng. Also I briefly tried 200mg every two weeks and had a two week trough of 840ng. I’ve talked to you several times on here and on peaks site in the past regarding low dosing. You also have to consider my shbg levels range from the mid 50s to the 70s.

I couldn't remember if you had high SHBG. That is a contributing factor. Injections drive free testosterone and then SHBG governs where total testosterone ends up; higher SHBG means higher total T.

It's also possible that your apparent half-life for cypionate is longer than average, which would give a greater appearance of a "buildup" effect and would also make your current measurements less extreme. With a more typical five-day half-life for cypionate your expected post-injection peak in serum testosterone is around 2,000 ng/dL on the current protocol.

 

[sh1973]

Yeah I’ve never checked peak at this dose honestly. Dr Saya says he does see the accumulative effect in some patients doing daily and eod protocols. For whatever reason and possible multiple reasons, I respond very well to small doses. I honestly think I could do even less. My urologist stayed he had a couple guys in their 60s that had been doing 40mg per week for several years and were very happy. We’re all so different when it comes to medication reactions. Just like recently, Defy put me on 1/2 grain of armour thyroid that pushed me hyper in less than two weeks. I had to completely stop, whereas others can tolerate 2-3 grains and have no problems.

 

[Blackhawk]

Used to be the standard on this forum was to ask the OP for labs.

Arbitrary recommendations of dosages without knowing the blood levels is pretty much like throwing darts.

 

[Cataceous]

Yeah I’ve never checked peak at this dose honestly. Dr Saya says he does see the accumulative effect in some patients doing daily and eod protocols. For whatever reason and possible multiple reasons, I respond very well to small doses. I honestly think I could do even less. My urologist stayed he had a couple guys in their 60s that had been doing 40mg per week for several years and were very happy. We’re all so different when it comes to medication reactions. ...

We may all be "so different," but in our healthy natural states we would almost all produce 3-9 mg of testosterone per day and have our serum testosterone vary in a diurnal rhythm of 10-30% about the mean. I think anyone having problems with TRT should be mindful of this.

 

[sh1973]

I totally agree with that. Most of us in our prime never had more than 700-800ng. I had to check my t in my mid twenties due to radiation exposure at a job site and it was 769ng. If I’m correct I was 25-26 at the time and never felt better.

 

[Gman86]

No I don’t use compounded cypionate. Always used westward or Pfizer

Interesting. Have u seen the post a guy made in here comparing Empower’s cyp to Pfizer’s cyp, at the same dosage? The results were that the Pfizer cyp produced much higher testosterone levels. Maybe this could have something to do with u getting great results on lower dosages. Just a thought.

I’m also using Pfizer cyp atm. Just curious, is there any specific reason u choose to use big pharma test over compounded?

 

[sh1973]

Mainly because I pay less than $30 for a years supply with insurance. Another reason is I’ve always been weary of anything compounded that’s injected. Just my own fears I guess. Westward is the best brand I’ve ever personally used but it seems hard to find now.

 

[Gman86]

Mainly because I pay less than $30 for a years supply with insurance. Another reason is I’ve always been weary of anything compounded that’s injected. Just my own fears I guess. Westward is the best brand I’ve ever personally used but it seems hard to find now.

Can’t argue with that! Lol. Ur insurance covers it? According to that guys’ results I was referring to, ur suspicions now seem pretty valid. And have u noticed any differences, subjectively or objectively in ur numbers, between westward and Pfizer? Just curious why u say westward is the best brand you’ve ever used. Thanks.

 

[sh1973]

Westward just seems more even keel to me it’s hard to describe its like the peak isn’t quiet as noticeable but Pfizer is still very good. I’ve seen several instances over the years of guys having to back their dose down when switching to pharma test. There’s going to be plenty guys argue they’re the same but I can tell u for certain I’ve tried a couple generics that are very noticeable in the way I felt at the same dose.

 

[Gman86]

Westward just seems more even keel to me it’s hard to describe its like the peak isn’t quiet as noticeable but Pfizer is still very good. I’ve seen several instances over the years of guys having to back their dose down when switching to pharma test. There’s going to be plenty guys argue they’re the same but I can tell u for certain I’ve tried a couple generics that are very noticeable in the way I felt at the same dose.

Everyone’s different, but I’ve only seen anecdotes and actual labs showing that big pharma produces higher levels, and sometimes produces noticeably different effects at the same dosages, so until I see labs showing that compounded results in the same levels as big pharma, and/ or men feeling noticeable improvements on compounded vs big pharma, I’m currently of the thought that there is a decent difference between the two most of the time.

Here’s a little excerpt from a private message with a guy I had on here a while back, and is the reason I decided to try and use Pfizer brand instead of empower’s compounded.

“ I have a prescription but only got the compounded from empower so far. I got the Bayer before I had a prescription but I'm glad I don't have to get it illegally anymore.
My friend who gave me the Pfizer is a pro athlete and his parents are both chemists for pharmaceutical companies and he told me they said to never ever take a generic of any drug for any reason, they said the smallest change in the excipients, or the way they synthesize the raws, can drastically effect side effects and efficacy. My friend also told me from his anecdotal experience that he felt great on Pfizer and always had issues on everything else he tried.
I checked with defy and they said they have Pfizer, sun pharma, and another I haven't heard of. So I think I'll do the Pfizer again.”

 

[sh1973]

Yeah they have the 10ml vials but it’s like $200 as long as you don’t mind the price. A 10ml vial will last me nearly half a year