15 weeks into protocol change, still not feeling well.. advice?

[TonyG]

Hey guys, I'm 33 years old. Next week will be 4 months since switching my Test Cyp protocol from 160 mg/week to 80 mg every 3.5 days. HCG 3x / week.

Still not stabilized - severe anxiety / moodswings - 2-3 days out of the week I will feel great, 4-5 days horrible. Energy is great, sleep is great, working out, limited drinking, no fatigue.

Within this 15 week time frame I have tried a variety of AI dosages - I can't seem to find one that works. I've tried no AI at all, E2 came back at 90. Tried 0.25mg AI EOD, 0.50mg AI EOD.

Below are my most recent labs. My TSH has always been high since before starting TRT in my late twenties (3.37, 3.3, 2.9).

I've scheduled my initial consultation with Defy.
What am I doing wrong or is the problem something else?

 

[Systemlord]

Still not stabilized - severe anxiety / moodswings - 2-3 days out of the week I will feel great, 4-5 days horrible.

What days do you feel bad, right before your injection or right after?

If you feel better right before your injection (at trough), you need to lower your dosage.

 

[TonyG]

What days do you feel bad, right before your injection or right after?

If you feel better right before your injection (at trough), you need to lower your dosage.

The trend I'm noticing is: Friday-Sunday (Weekends) are horrible for me. It's almost as if I'm skipping the Thursday evening Test shot.

Monday mornings I will be fine, Wednesday/Thursday being great, the rest of the days are brutal.
I can't trace the exact pattern, but it's possible this is a result of not maintaining a steady AI dose?

 

[Systemlord]

I can't trace the exact pattern, but it's possible this is a result of not maintaining a steady AI dose?

It could be both your AI is crushing your E2 initially taking days to recover and your T dosage is too high.

 

[Vince]

I agree, it could be an AI issue. How did you feel, when you did not use one?

 

[TonyG]

I agree, it could be an AI issue. How did you feel, when you did not use one?

I did 4 weeks with no AI and it was horrible. Panic attacks, crazy anxiety, bloated up like a whale, balloon face. E2 came back at 90. That's when I got back on the AI, been going in circles trying to find the right spot. I'm going to try 0.50mg / week and see how that feels.

 

[Match]

Do que li, T/E deve ser entre 14-20, de forma que o Estradiol precisa ser ao menos 45. Logo, penso que está muito baixo

 

[Charliebizz]

How long after injection did you get blood drawn?

 

[TonyG]

How long after injection did you get blood drawn?

Blood was drawn at trough (Monday AM before injection)

 

[Charliebizz]

Blood was drawn at trough (Monday AM before injection)

I think you can lower the dose a good amount. I know when I run levels that high I get all sorts of side effects. My numbers are almost identical to yours. But 10 hours after injection.

 

[madman]

Blood was drawn at trough (Monday AM before injection)

Thyroid Interpretation of results

Hey guys, I'd like your input on whether I need Thyroid treatment or not. I'm 33 years old. My TSH has always been high since before starting TRT in my late twenties. I've posted all labs below in order from the most recent to the oldest. I am experiencing moodswings (2 days good, 5 days bad)...

www.excelmale.com

Still caught up on this high T train.

As stated numerous times before it is clear as day that you easily have room to lower your T dose yet you are dead set on f**king with the AI.

 

[rvatrt]

160mg a week isn’t a “high” T dose.
I think AI is poison, and probably the culprit to many issues with high doses.

OP: I always had better success with injected AI mixed with the T that RoyalMens had. Every time I take the pill I go thru hell like you are sir.

 

[madman]

160mg a week isn’t a “high” T dose.
I think AI is poison, and probably the culprit to many issues with high doses.

OP: I always had better success with injected AI mixed with the T that RoyalMens had. Every time I take the pill I go thru hell like you are sir.

Come again!

He has low SHBG which will have a significant impact on what TT/FT level is achieved on such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) and as you can clearly see his trough FT is still high.

Forget the f**king dose.....where your trough FT levels sit is critical.

 

[madman]

160mg a week isn’t a “high” T dose.
I think AI is poison, and probably the culprit to many issues with high doses.

OP: I always had better success with injected AI mixed with the T that RoyalMens had. Every time I take the pill I go thru hell like you are sir.

I used to inject 150 mg T/week (75 mg every 3.5 days) and was hitting a trough TT 1500 ng/dL with FT through the roof.....and that is with the SHBG level of a healthy young male 30-35!

Trust me when I tell you that <200 mg/week of T can easily still be considered a high dose for some as many can easily achieve high let alone absurdly high FT levels on such dose.

 

[Charliebizz]

160mg a week isn’t a “high” T dose.
I think AI is poison, and probably the culprit to many issues with high doses.

OP: I always had better success with injected AI mixed with the T that RoyalMens had. Every time I take the pill I go thru hell like you are sir.

His free t is 50 points higher then top of the range right before his next shot how is that not a high dose for him?

 

[madman]

160mg a week isn’t a “high” T dose.
I think AI is poison, and probably the culprit to many issues with high doses.

OP: I always had better success with injected AI mixed with the T that RoyalMens had. Every time I take the pill I go thru hell like you are sir.

My Most Recent Labs.

My protocol, 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of hcg twice weekly and no AI. Pregnenolone 10 mg and 25 mg of DHEA. My last injection before labs, about 28 hr.s. Labs are from LabCorp. Testosterone, Serum 1319 ng/dL range 264-916 Free Testosterone 47.9 ng/dL range...

www.excelmale.com

Get back to me on that one when you understand how this works.....BRUH!

 

[rvatrt]

You all seem quite angry, maybe your doses are too high.

 

[madman]

You all seem quite angry, maybe your doses are too high.

160mg a week isn’t a “high” T dose.
I think AI is poison, and probably the culprit to many issues with high doses.

OP: I always had better success with injected AI mixed with the T that RoyalMens had. Every time I take the pill I go thru hell like you are sir.

Think a little deeper before claiming such.

 

[rvatrt]

Bro. You really need to relax.

 

[Blackhawk]

I agree with Madman from your previous thread that you were put on a bad protocol (200mg 1/week + excessive AI and HCG), by a doctor who is ignorant of how to actually manage TRT that works. Now you are suffering the consequences of trying to self manage your way out of that. This is an all too common thing which many members here have had to deal with. You are in good company, and it seems making some of the same mistakes some of us also have in the past.

I also agree with him that you are taking too much T.

And an added issue that plays in with that is your SHBG. You told me it is 19. This complicates the story. It means you need to consider dosing frequency as well as total dose. It likely sets you up nicely for LOWER DOSES OF TESTOSTERONE MORE FREQUENTLY aiming for around 100mg/week for starters. Some low SHBG forum members have done better at surprisingly low levels down to ~8mg daily.

So, it sounds to me like you're on a couple of roller coasters:

1-that your 2/week T injections are not evening out the Free T roller coaster, even with the free T way too high at trough.

2- E2 follows T, so you are suffering the effects of both having too much and the fluctuation 2x/week.

3: Playing with 0.5mg doses of anastrozole can put you on yet another roller coaster. That's a mighty dose. You didn't say how often you are taking it. If you are once a week, the 40-50 hr half life puts you on a roller coaster again. 0.5mg will hit hard, then lose effectiveness over a week's time. 2x/week is much better, but at much less per dose.

For me, once again EOD was a nice schedule. I am not you, and what has worked for me in this regard probably won't work for you, especially in your current T dosage, but When I was on anastrozole it was at 0.06-0.07mg per dose... yes hundredths, EOD, so from 0.21 to 0.245 mg per week. It did the job and was steady, as was my EOD protocol for T.

And, adjusting AI is also a process that you have to monitor with labs. chasing E2 based on your symptoms is futile. If you misintepret low E2 as high and dose anastrozole, you crash your E2. Some members have really done themselves up doing this.

I am glad you are getting on board with Defy. Dr Saya helped me out of a similar predicament after his initial prescribed dose turned out to be too much for me. It seems you are repeating my history LOL!

Hang in there buddy. You'll get through it!