Initial TRT Dosing (Defy)

Thread starter #1
I have been pouring through threads here, absorbing lots of info as I am likely to start TRT therapy at 52 yo.

One question I have is about Defy. It seems that Defy likes to start everyone off with TRT, HCG, and a AI.
I am basing this off of threads I have read. Is this correct??

When I do begin TRT, and likely will very soon, my learning has led me to adopt the less is more approach. I would like to just start with TRT only, lowest dose recommended and see how it goes. Then move dosing and add other stuff if needed.

Also, I'm in Boston. Does anyone know of a TRT MD in the area, that is good and not overly expensive??

Thoughts??
 
#2
I agree that Defy starts with a pretty standard protocol. I had been just test only for 4 years prior to defy. When I started with them they want to add HCG, DHEA, an AI and increase my test dosage. I refused to do all of that at once. I started with increase in test and frequency I went 8 weeks and then did blood work and then added hcg, did the same thing and then added DHEA. All of that stuff raised my E2 to a point where they wanted me to add an AI. My E2 had never been over 20 and not been symptomatic. I refused and dropped all of the other stuff ad am back to test only protocol. They were just trying to help me dial in, for which I am grateful. But if it is not broken.........
Remember, you and only you are in charge of your health. They are there for advice only, not to tell you what you have to do.
I am a very start low and go slow kinda guy. A previous dr had me boggered up and ran my HCT up to 62.3!!!! Now all of these things are MY decision, not any dr.
 
Thread starter #3
I agree that Defy starts with a pretty standard protocol. I had been just test only for 4 years prior to defy. When I started with them they want to add HCG, DHEA, an AI and increase my test dosage. I refused to do all of that at once. I started with increase in test and frequency I went 8 weeks and then did blood work and then added hcg, did the same thing and then added DHEA. All of that stuff raised my E2 to a point where they wanted me to add an AI. My E2 had never been over 20 and not been symptomatic. I refused and dropped all of the other stuff ad am back to test only protocol. They were just trying to help me dial in, for which I am grateful. But if it is not broken.........
Remember, you and only you are in charge of your health. They are there for advice only, not to tell you what you have to do.
I am a very start low and go slow kinda guy. A previous dr had me boggered up and ran my HCT up to 62.3!!!! Now all of these things are MY decision, not any dr.
"Standard Protocol" I am trying to learn, but have read many places here on this board that the more you start with the more confusing it is to figure issues out, and dial things in. Also It seems to that and AI should only be added when symptoms arise?? I'm feeling more confused, but as I said low, slow and one thing at a time seems to make the most sense to me, but maybe i'm missing something??
 
#4
Absolutely one new addition at a time. If you start with a bunch of things how will you ever know which worked or which created a problem. Without seeing all of your labs we are a bit in the blind. But, unless there is a serious deficit in something, I would start with test only. Never add an AI unless you are symptomatic IMHO. HCG makes you balls bigger, I could care less. There is some discussion on it backfilling channels..... I have no real comment on that.
 

Vince

Moderator
#5
My starting protocol was 70mg of testosterone cypionate and 500iu of HCG twice a week, no AI. It worked great.
 
Thread starter #6
I could care less about balls (unless they shrivel real badly) or kids, I'm done with that. My labs are on another thread.

I'm questioning if Defy would be a good fit for me?
 
#7
I too am from around Boston. I tried a couple local places, but they were just horrendous. Just pitiful, imo. Wasted a lot of time and money. I’ve been in your shoes, and trust me, just save yourself a lot of time and stress and go with Defy.

And don’t overthink things. Just go with Defy, and let them know you just want to start with testosterone only. They will listen to your opinion. Tell them you just want to start with a very low dose of testosterone. I would start with 80-100mg/ week, split into ED, EOD, or at most E3.5D injections. And see how you do. You’re overthinking things, which is understandable. We all were where u are at one point. But just trust me, go with defy, and just use the start low and go slow method, with testosterone only. You’ll thank me later. You can always add in HCG, DHEA, pregnenolone, an ai, if needed. But you need to start with testosterone only, and if you do add in other compounds, add them in one at a time. Some men don’t feel good on HCG, so even if you start with testosterone and HCG, and don’t feel good, how will you know whether it’s the HCG that’s causing the issue, or if your dosages are the issue? You could be at the perfect testosterone dosage, but may not feel good because of the HCG, and then end up adjusting your dosages because you don’t feel optimal. When the whole time it was the HCG causing the issue, not the testosterone dosage.
 
Thread starter #8
Last time someone said trust me I ended up with 2 kids (LOL, just kidding of course)

I appreciate your advice, it holds a lot of weight with me. you seem to contribute a lot to this site.
 
#9
Hahaha, I have an ex that I still mess with that gives me the whole “trust me” line too, so I get it lol.

But ya I just try to give advice on here so that people don’t make the same mistakes that I had to make. Because ya those mistakes cost me time, stress and money, but it was also an extreme struggle to keep up with my job and responsibilities during that time, because of the mismanagement of my hormones and the stress. I can’t put enough emphasis on how important finding a good TRT doctor/ clinic is. I wish someone like me was giving me advice like this when I started out, but unfortunately that wasn’t the case. I had to learn the very hard way. So if I can help someone like you avoid all that, it obviously makes me feel good. I’m literally just giving you the advice that I wish I could of got 5 years ago.
 
Thread starter #10
I want to also say to everyone who contributes here, THANKS. I have gained lots of reassurance and knowledge about embarking on TRT.
 
#11
Dansk, I second what Gman said. don't over think it, go with Defy. I am just trying to remind you that you do not have to do exactly what they say, you can discuss your concerns with them during your consult. I would not start all of that stuff at once. But as others have said, it worked for them to start it all at once.
 
Thread starter #12
Dansk, I second what Gman said. don't over think it, go with Defy. I am just trying to remind you that you do not have to do exactly what they say, you can discuss your concerns with them during your consult. I would not start all of that stuff at once. But as others have said, it worked for them to start it all at once.
Thanks.

With all the discussion about estradiol and the use of AI, of which I'd like to avoid. I mean it's been said many times on this site E follows T so I'd like to put that into practice by using T to control any E issues. HCG would not be out of the picture for me, just would like to see how T alone would affect me. Being this would be a lifelong commitment, the less I need the better.
 
#13
Thanks.

With all the discussion about estradiol and the use of AI, of which I'd like to avoid. I mean it's been said many times on this site E follows T so I'd like to put that into practice by using T to control any E issues. HCG would not be out of the picture for me, just would like to see how T alone would affect me. Being this would be a lifelong commitment, the less I need the better.
Great attitude. You can absolutely add in HCG, DHEA, pregnenolone, even an ai if absolutely necessary, but definitely don't have them add them all in at once. Just start off on testosterone alone, and you'll be just fine. Going on TRT might end up being the best decision you ever made in your entire life. It was for me. I feel extremely lucky to be on TRT, and to have control over my hormones. I honestly feel bad for guys that have to deal with their hormones dropping every time they don't sleep well, eat crappy, are stressed out, over exercise, etc. When my hormones were low, it made me into a completely different person than when my hormones are optimized. I never want to go back to letting life wreak havoc on how I feel and treat people. I think we owe it to the people around us to be the best versions of ourselves. I mean who really wants to be around someone that's tired, irritable, short tempered, not very fun, doesn't want to go out and do anything. I know I wouldn't, so I wouldn't expect others to want to be around me when my hormones were all off.
 
Thread starter #14
I hear ya Gman, my levels are all pretty low. (other than SHBG) I think I'm probably used to feeling like shit, although I am not very moody, most of my symptoms are physical.
We will see, I am getting paperwork together now, need to get physical sheet signed off (this will take the most time)

Thanks
 
#15
Dansk, yes yes and yes. My main reason to start was low energy and cognitive issues. The sex thing was a boost. Mass in the gym goes on easier now as well.
I speak withDr Calkin at Defy and am very happy with him. He listens and is willing to adjust things based on my concerns.
 
#16
Dansk, yes yes and yes. My main reason to start was low energy and cognitive issues. The sex thing was a boost. Mass in the gym goes on easier now as well.
I speak withDr Calkin at Defy and am very happy with him. He listens and is willing to adjust things based on my concerns.
I speak with nurse Jill at defy, and it’s the same exact thing. She actually listens to my concerns. Defy is the perfect balance of giving you quality guidance, and letting you adjust things as long as they are comfortable with it and feel like the adjustment is justified, usually through lab work, subjective symptoms, or ideally both.

I actually just had to call them a few hours ago to get follow up labs done. I had a high HCT, and donated blood 3 weeks ago. So they want me to get a follow up CBC to check if it lowered my HCT. I also called to have them refill my ai. Within 2 hours they emailed me my lab requisition, and the refill for my ai was already at my local pharmacy. I literally don’t have one bad thing to say about defy. I could not be happier with them. And their customer service is amazing. The people that work there are always so nice and helpful. I can give u multiple horror stories in regards to dealing with the other two doctors/ clinics I went to, but I’ll save you the sob stories. Just go with defy, you’ll thank me later.

As far as going on TRT in general, just pull the trigger. You’re 52, things are only going to get progressively worse. Like I said before, it’s not all about how you subjectively feel. You have to think of all the damage having low testosterone is doing to you metabolically. Right now your body is in a state of increase aging, and increased risk for all chronic disease, including cancer, diabetes and dementia. Why stay in this state when you can just optimize your hormones and not only slow down aging, but actually reverse it to a certain degree.
 
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Thread starter #17
I’m on board, it’s always been in my mind to do this for the health benefits and to function at a higher level as I age. I got a lot of life left to live mind as well make optimal as I can get it.
 
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