Gene generally mentions taking both micronized Pregnenalone and DHEA as "backfilling the pathways" supplements. I have tried taking just DHEA and then both together. I don't really notice any subjective difference, and have not had any further DHEA blood testing since my initial low result of 58. The question: If Pregnenalone is the "mother" hormone, and DHEA is downstream from it, why would we take both Pregnenalone and DHEA? Does DHEA need to be double supplemented for some reason? Why wouldn't Pregnenalone by itself properly backfill DHEA as well as other areas? And why would we take DHEA by itself if Pregnenalone offers to backfill multiple pathways vs. the singular pathway of DHEA? BTW, this site is a treasure trove of good info. Thanks to Nelson, Gene, and all those who make this place happen on a daily basis. You are doing more good than you probably will ever know.
Supplement BOTH Pregnenalone and DHEA?
- Thread starter txmx
- Start date
I've been wondering the same. I'm on TRT and HCG plus 100 mg micronized Pregenolone per day, and I just received blood test results showing my DHEA-S at 295 (range 102-416). This is only a little lower than where it was previous to starting TRT, when it was at 350. I don't see a compelling reason to add DHEA, but maybe somebody will provide one.
Ok, I will give it my best guess since there are no other replies. Maybe the supposed fact that Pregnenalone fills so many other pathways makes it worthwhile on its own no matter what you do otherwise. And maybe since DHEA can be so low and/or be taken beyond RDA limits it can handle a double shot (i.e. however Pregnenalone affects it, plus the added direct shot of a DHEA supplement). And maybe as long as you keep it reasonable (say 50mg Pregnenalone and 50mg DHEA daily) you won't overload on it. But would Pregnenalone at 100mg daily offer the same DHEA effect and give you a better boost for the other pathways as well? For those more knowledgeable than myself, please correct the likely misconceptions here. Thanks.
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
The fact is that very little of both DHEA and Preg make into the blood stream...about 7% of the active formula; but it's enough to increase serum levels.
It's just good to supplement both even though Preg converts to DHEA.
As we age, like Testosterone, we produce less and less of both of these pro-hormones. Add to that downstream exogenous Testosterone which slows upstream production of both, it's usually a good idea to add it to a TRT protocol for all of the health benefits and ensuring that all three metabolic pathways are getting the foundational support to maintain good health and well being.
It's just good to supplement both even though Preg converts to DHEA.
As we age, like Testosterone, we produce less and less of both of these pro-hormones. Add to that downstream exogenous Testosterone which slows upstream production of both, it's usually a good idea to add it to a TRT protocol for all of the health benefits and ensuring that all three metabolic pathways are getting the foundational support to maintain good health and well being.
Gene, on that note, I'm curious what you think of my last question in this thread:
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ng-dhea-levels-up/page9&highlight=dhea+levels
Here it is again... Thanks!
Dr. Rouzier states that the range for DHEA is 100-600, and that optimal is near the top of that range, at 500-600. Doesn't that mean you want to be near the top of whatever the reference range is for your lab, rather than at twice the upper limit of the range? If he was advocating twice the upper limit of whatever range, wouldn't he suggest being at 1,000-1,200 if the range were 500-600?
Or, is it that the set range is different for each lab, although the actual results (if measured in the same units) would be approximately the same from lab to lab? I've never been clear on why ranges differ from lab to lab.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ng-dhea-levels-up/page9&highlight=dhea+levels
Here it is again... Thanks!
Dr. Rouzier states that the range for DHEA is 100-600, and that optimal is near the top of that range, at 500-600. Doesn't that mean you want to be near the top of whatever the reference range is for your lab, rather than at twice the upper limit of the range? If he was advocating twice the upper limit of whatever range, wouldn't he suggest being at 1,000-1,200 if the range were 500-600?
Or, is it that the set range is different for each lab, although the actual results (if measured in the same units) would be approximately the same from lab to lab? I've never been clear on why ranges differ from lab to lab.
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
As I understand it, he wants men at the top of the reference range no matter the lab value.
DHEA-S is measurable.
Pregnenolone labs are expensive and very unreliable.
DHEA-S is measurable.
Pregnenolone labs are expensive and very unreliable.
Angel'sDesk
New Member
I'd like to add that pregnenolone can be converted to cortisol for use by the adrenals, and so in individuals who have issues with low cortisol, this conversion occurs preferentially and it leaves less pregnenolone to be converted to DHEA (and therefore less to be converted to testosterone and estradiol/estrone/estriol), so for people who are not making enough cortisol, or who are under a lot of stress, supplementing DHEA in addition to pregnenolone means that you are making sure there is enough DHEA to convert downstream.
Back to DHEA for a moment as I just got some comprehensive labs after a five month cessation of clomiphene to get back to baseline T and E2. Last time I had DHEA-S measured it was 58. My endo interpreted that as ok and within range (49-344). Since that time I have been supplementing with inexpensive micronized MRM Pregnenalone (50mg/day) and DHEA (2x25mg/day, total 50mg/day). Amongst all my labs I wanted my endo to work with, only the DHEA-S stood out to him as it was out of range on the high side at 531. Of course, this was the only lab I was happy with as fully optimized 
He wondered how it could change so much. I mentioned the Preg and DHEA I had been taking and he was like, oh, ok. My point: Inexpensive micronized MRM Preg and DHEA worked for me. Not sure if either one alone would have made the same difference, so I will continue with both. (Fyi, the bottles these days may or may not say micronized as they have been messing with the labeling. I contacted MRM and they said the formula is still the same and it is still micronized.)
He wondered how it could change so much. I mentioned the Preg and DHEA I had been taking and he was like, oh, ok. My point: Inexpensive micronized MRM Preg and DHEA worked for me. Not sure if either one alone would have made the same difference, so I will continue with both. (Fyi, the bottles these days may or may not say micronized as they have been messing with the labeling. I contacted MRM and they said the formula is still the same and it is still micronized.)
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
Back to DHEA for a moment as I just got some comprehensive labs after a five month cessation of clomiphene to get back to baseline T and E2. Last time I had DHEA-S measured it was 58. My endo interpreted that as ok and within range (49-344). Since that time I have been supplementing with inexpensive micronized MRM Pregnenalone (50mg/day) and DHEA (2x25mg/day, total 50mg/day). Amongst all my labs I wanted my endo to work with, only the DHEA-S stood out to him as it was out of range on the high side at 531. Of course, this was the only lab I was happy with as fully optimized
Micronized did the exact same to my labs as well.
It's why Dr. Rouizer recommends it as well.
Glade to see the good results.
I've been taking MRM micronized pregnenolone for two months now. I noticed no difference (for the better or worse) after switching from the same dosage of McPherson Labs micronized pregnenolone. I will receive follow up labs soon to see how it has impacted my 4 pt. saliva cortisol and DHEA. I am hoping that just Preg is enough to bring up both cortisol and DHEA, but we'll see.
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
DHEA supplements can/may raise DHEA-S levels Pregnenelone will not.
I take both 50 mg of DHEA-S and Pregnenolone super micronized SR each and every morning to "back fill" all three of our metabolic pathways.
I take both 50 mg of DHEA-S and Pregnenolone super micronized SR each and every morning to "back fill" all three of our metabolic pathways.
WrenchHead80
Member
I know this is a old thread. Is MRM still the recommended brand for taking DHEA and Preg?
WrenchHead80
Member
Thanks, I figured being micronized is the key. It sounds like proven results have been found with using MRM though, So I'd rather play it safe.
Is their any problem with starting on a low dose of both like 5mg and working my way up to either 25mg or 50mg total each for both?
Is their any problem with starting on a low dose of both like 5mg and working my way up to either 25mg or 50mg total each for both?
The only problem with starting at a very low dose with MRM at least is that you will have to buy a bag of empty pill cases make your own custom-dose pills. I am doing that now. I started with 25mg/day Dhea capsules and my levels went pretty high, so I am now trying 12.5mg/day and suspect it will bring me right where I want to be on blood test. On Preg, I tried 50mg/day capsules and got heart palpitations. Went to 25mg/day and the same thing. Now trying 12.5mg/day on Preg, no problems so far. Not doing Preg blood test, just subjectively seeing how I feel. It takes a while to make your own doses, so if another brand of micronized has different dose levels, it might be worth buying to save time. I have also tried Life Extension sublingual micronized Dhea tablets, which are easy to cut to different dose levels, but I never did measure their effectiveness via blood test.
WrenchHead80
Member
Thanks for the info. I think it would be better for me to start small and work my way up. I know my DHEA is in the middle of in range. Preg never got tested since I heard its not reliable.
Not sure if it helps you but on Amazon a company named Douglas Laboratories has many good reviews and they make both in small 5mg doses. Only thing I notice is the preg doesn't say micronized on it.
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