Good Hematocrit Results from Grapefruit Seed Extract but low SHBG

[Ardoc]

For the last 2 months I have been taking Grapefruit Seed Extract to hopefully help lower Hematocrit. My last blood donation was June 1st, 2017 at which time my hematocrit was 52.5 after 5 months without donating.
I just did bloodwork this past Friday (after not donating since June 1st which is over 5 months) and my result is 50.9.
I realize this is only a sample size of one and may even be a coincidence but it is very encouraging. I always lived in the 52 - 53% range if not donating. I will definitely continue the GSE and gage results.

Now the only other thing I changed was injection frequency, moving from EOD to ED due to my low SHBG.
Overall the higher frequency has made a marked improvement in how I feel and I'm quite happy with the current results. However I had some results that surprised me and I would love some feedback on.

In both cases below I used 196mg/week Test Cyp and 400iu HCG 2x/week (800 Total/week). The only thing I changed was the injection frequency (56mg EOD until May 18 then 28mg ED from May until now). Since my SHBG is low I thought ED would raise TT and lower FT. (I grew to that Test Cyp dose over time because my numbers were not rising to where my Doc and I were aiming). The May 18th numbers were the best to date.

MAY 18, 2017---------- RANGE------------NOVEMBER 17, 2017
TT = 784 ng/dl --------(242 - 830)-----------TT = 1294 ng/dl
FT = 25.2 ng/dl--------(5.2 - 13.7)-----------FT = 46.5 ng/dl
SHBG = 14.4 nmol/l----(19 - 76)----------SHBG = Lab mistakenly tested HCG instead??

So the ED protocol actually raised my FT rather than lower it and it also significantly increased TT as well. Both results were kind of surprising. My goal wasn't to lower FT but to "even out" the TT and FT to indicate my increased frequency was mitigating the problems caused by my low SHBG.

I am in Canada so therefor the lower ranges. I have converted the results for easier feedback. Being in Canada my E2 is not sensitive test (and shows "in range") so I have not even put that here. When testing in the USA in the past my E2 has always been in top half of range on sensitive test and i have never had high E2 symptoms.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[Systemlord]

Your TT and FT went up do to the increase in injection frequency, by doing more injections more often you aren't allowing your levels to drop much before your next injection. You might try lowering your dose to increase SHBG since this will likely make you feel better.

 

[Ardoc]

Agreed SystemLord I plan to lower my dose but just trying to understand the relationship here. Based on the limited knowledge there seems to be about SHBG, the theory seemed to be that FT can be disproportionately high compared to TT when injecting infrequently as our body coverts TT to FT quicker in someone with low SHBG. I would have thought that higher IF would equate to somewhat lower FT and higher TT (but not to the extent it raised TT). I would have thought that at the very least the percentage of FT would have gone down but instead it went from 3.2% to 3.5%.

 

[Ardoc]

And thank you for your reply!!

 

[Systemlord]

Almost everyone starts out with their SHBG higher, then you start TRT and it decreases a bit. Pre-TRT I was at 25 for SHBG, and 4 weeks later is leveled at 18 on weekly injections. The theory goes the smaller the dosages the less impact on SHBG, for some it doesn't seem to matter, no matter the protocol SHBG doesn't budge. So high TT numbers near the top of the range makes no sense for a low SHBG guy, I think guys with SHBG below 15 should shoot for mid range TT unless FT is low.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Yes, TRT lowers SHBG.

The lower the T peaks, the better the chances of not increasing your hematocrit over 53. Making sure you have no sleep apnea and avoiding smoking are also two ways to minimize polycythemia.

 

[Ardoc]

Mine was higher also. When I first started 5 years ago I got great results at 100mg once per week but over time that changed assumedly due to waning SHBG levels.

Sorry Nelson its Grapefruit Seed Extract.

 

[ERO]

It is common to see your total and free T levels rise when you switch to daily injections but stay at roughly the same total amount per week. Just lowering your daily dose a bit should take care of it.

 

[FeelingLost]

My money is on the daily injections keeping your E2 in check(that's been proven and reported here by several trusted members) not the GSE.
Before I was prescribed an AI for high E2 and prolactin I experimented with zinc, mag, boron, and GSE. They did not do crap for me.

 

[Mountain Man]

My money is on the daily injections keeping your E2 in check(that's been proven and reported here by several trusted members) not the GSE.
Before I was prescribed an AI for high E2 and prolactin I experimented with zinc, mag, boron, and GSE. They did not do crap for me.

I have been using GSE and my hematocrit has stabilized at 49. Not sure if the stabilization is naturally occurring or from the GSE. I've been on TRT a year and a half and numbers are stable. Whatever is causing stabilization is a good thing. Can't placebo bloodwork!

 

[Vince]

To stop donating blood, I turn to daily injections. My HCT has been steady at 46-47, I will have labs November 24th. I never has high estradiol levels, so I'm "not" doing daily for lowering my E2.

 

[Ardoc]

Thanks to everyone for your comments!

Mountain Man, I agree it could have stabilized on its own but for me it seems a bit co-inciental considering I have been on TRT for over 5 years without it stabilizing? Maybe the daily injections help but at this point I will continue the GSE.

Feeling Lost, I am taking the GSE for Hematocrit, not E2. I am lucky that my E2 has never been an issue.

Vince, did you see a definitive difference in your Hematocrit from changing to daily injections? If so that may be the true reason for my lower reading. Also now that the daily schedule has increased TT and FT, I assume when I lower my dose that should also support the lower Hematocrit.

 

[FeelingLost]

Thanks to everyone for your comments!

snip...
Feeling Lost, I am taking the GSE for Hematocrit, not E2. I am lucky that my E2 has never been an issue.

Vince, did you see a definitive difference in your Hematocrit from changing to daily injections? If so that may be the true reason for my lower reading. Also now that the daily schedule has increased TT and FT, I assume when I lower my dose that should also support the lower Hematocrit.

Sorry for that typo. I ment HCT hematocrit and have no idea why I typed E2. I'm going to blame brain fog, haha
I was thinking of Vinces report/posting of how he stablized his HCT with daily injections.
Other have also done the same and reported stabilization.

 

[Ardoc]

I'm hopeful that the ED injections might stabilize my HCT once my TT and FT have come down from reducing my Test dose. For the next couple months I will continue to take the GSE but once I get my Test levels into the right place I will see if stopping the GSE makes any difference.

 

[Vince]

Before I started doing daily injections, I was donating blood every 8 weeks. I was really getting tired of donating that often, I haven't donated since February.

 

[JPB]

The higher T and free T will reduce SHBG. Androgens decrease SHBG, estrogens increase it. As others have said, you will most likely benefit from keeping with daily injection but adjusting your dose downwards.

 

[Vince Carter]

I used GSE from Bulk Supps once per day and I'm kind of 50/50 on it, my last CBC was way up to 54 though I did have some indication thru testing that it might be keeping it down or stable but I had to donate and will do so again in ~4 weeks. Daily Cyp inj has done nothing, really, for my E or HCT control.

 

[Ardoc]

Thanks VC! Sorry to hear that. I am using NutriBiotics GSE capsules x2/day. At this point I am convinced that either the daily injections, the GSE or the combination has significantly improved my HCT levels. And it seems on the forum that daily injections may have helped some lower HCT but not others, and it seems the results are just as mixed for GSE. At this point I am happy that i don't have to donate so will continue both for now but will try without GSE in a couple months to see if it has any effect.

 

[Sakuraba39]

What was your GSE dose/frequency, etc?

 

[Ardoc]

S39,
I am taking Nutribiotics Grapefruit Seed Extract, 250mg capsules, twice per day. This is the one I use;
NutriBiotic Capsules 250 mg GSE (Grapefruit Seed Extract), 60 caps.
If you try it please let us know your results.