Deca Durabolin (Nandrolone) Question for Nelson Vergel

[LVJR]

Nelson,

First...thanks for all you do to help our community.

My question pertains to Deca. I've read your background on Deca. I believe your experience was for 10 years at 100-200mg per week. I also have enjoyed using Deca on a weekly basis. My question revolves around your stopping this compound. I believe you mentioned a negative study related to the heart. Can you post a link to this study?

Thanks

 

[Nelson Vergel]

This is an animal study.

Nandrolone and resistance training induce heart remodeling: Role of fetal genes and implications for cardiac pathophysiology

The main reason I stopped nandrolone was this study that showed that it did not decrease visceral fat when compared to an oral anabolic like oxandrolone. When people were switched from oxandrolone to nandrolone, their visceral fat increased. These patients were not exercising or on a special diet, so I do not know how this would translate to people who are eating clean and working out.

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.


I have visceral fat (diagnosed by one slice CT scan at L4-L5 area) due to my 34 years with HIV (HIV Lipodystrophy ). Luckily, It is not too bad as I keep working hard to keep it from expanding.

Too bad oxandrolone decreases HDL probably more than nandrolone. I love oxandrolone but I am afraid of long term HDL suppression.

https://www.bcbsnc.com/assets/services/public/pdfs/formulary/oxandrolone_um_criteria.pdf

 

[Nelson Vergel]

More on oxandrolone (Anavar)

Oxandrolone (Anavar) Medical Uses- Presentation Attached


Anavar (Oxandrolone) Blood Levels Increased by Caffeine



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HIV, nandrolone and oxandrolone - Page 2

 

[Vitamin_C]

Nelson, did you have to run any Prolactin suppressing medications on Deca?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Vitamin C: No, I never did. I wish I had.

 

[maxadvance]

I'm taking Deca now, as long as your T is more than your Deca dose there should be no sexual dysfunction. I'm at 200/150 T to Deca per week and my libido is off the hook, even though my last prolactin reading was elevated at 37.

 

[Re-Ride]

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524461_4

Effects of Nandrolone Decanoate Compared With Placebo or Testosterone on HIV-Associated Wasting

J Gold; MJ Batterham; H Rekers; MK Harms; TBP Geurts; PME Helmyr; et al

["This study is the first large multicentre randomized placebo-controlled study to demonstrate the effectiveness of nandrolone decanoate over placebo in increasing fat free mass, weight and body mass index in HIV-positive males with wasting."]

["In view of the escalating nature of health care costs, it is critical that an effective anabolic agent that will improve fat free mass and perception of treatment benefit is of low cost and has minimal side effects so that it may be of use in resource-poor settings."]

["It has been reported that the lower than normal testosterone level in HIV-positive male patients is associated with decreased sexual functioning, depression and loss of fat free mass.[SUP][23,24][/SUP] The aetiology of this physiological observation is unclear.

HIV may have an impact on the hypothalamic pituitary axis or a direct impact on the testis, or both.

In addition to involuntary weight loss, lowered testosterone levels are associated with a poor prognosis.[SUP][25][/SUP] Because of these documented associations, the relationship between baseline androgen levels and treatment with androgenic anabolic agents warrants investigation. Bhasin et al[SUP][26][/SUP] did not find a correlation between change in fat free mass and baseline testosterone levels in their study investigating the effects of testosterone replacement in hypogonadal HIV-positive men with weight loss."]

["This study is the first large multicentre randomized placebo-controlled study to demonstrate the effectiveness of nandrolone decanoate over placebo in increasing fat free mass, weight and body mass index in HIV-positive males with wasting. In addition, fortnightly treatment with 150 mg nandrolone decanoate was superior to fortnightly treatment with 250 mg testosterone for increasing weight, increasing body mass index and (insignificantly) increasing fat-free mass.

Subjectively, nandrolone was superior to both placebo and testosterone for improving perception of treatment benefit and recovery from symptoms. Testosterone and nandrolone were chosen as the two agents to compare in this study as they were the treatments most commonly prescribed at the participating research centres for treatment of weight loss...

In view of the escalating nature of health care costs, it is critical that an effective anabolic agent that will improve fat free mass and perception of treatment benefit is of low cost and has minimal side effects so that it may be of use in resource-poor settings...

... This study also addresses the concern that anabolic/androgenic agents may increase serum lipids and liver function test results, and have a negative effect on glycaemic control.[SUP][27,28][/SUP] Current evidence does not support these concerns...

... (in those without) HIV infection have been associated with reduced visceral adipose tissue, lower glucose levels and improved insulin sensitivity.[SUP][29][/SUP] Epidemiological studies have shown inverse relationships between total and free serum testosterone and visceral fat, cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes.[SUP][29][/SUP] Sattler et al[SUP][30][/SUP] demonstrated no detrimental effects of nandrolone on triglycerides, or total or LDL cholesterol. HDL cholesterol did decrease transiently during nandrolone treatment, but returned to near-baseline levels when assessed 12 weeks after the treatment was finished. Previously we have also investigated changes in serum lipids, fasting insulin and glucose over an 8-week period in 10 HIV-positive male patients with body composition changes consistent with lipodystrophy and found no significant changes in these parameters.[SUP][31][/SUP] No significant differences were detected between the placebo and nandrolone groups for changes in serum cholesterol (total, LDL or HDL), triglycerides, glucose and insulin in the present study, although a significant difference did exist between the nandrolone and testosterone groups for LDL and total cholesterol. "]

 

[warrior1]

Nelson, too bad about the deca, always liked a lose dose (200mg per week), with TRT and felt good. Never had any sides, recovery was great, didnt retain water, and training was virtually injury free.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

I'm taking Deca now, as long as your T is more than your Deca dose there should be no sexual dysfunction. I'm at 200/150 T to Deca per week and my libido is off the hook, even though my last prolactin reading was elevated at 37.

max is your deca prescribed or self medicated?

 

[sour_patch]

Do you know of a compounding pharmacy that will make npp instead of nandrolone deconate?

 

[skycop00]

Imo your elevation is the result of adding T to Deca not the Dec a alone.

 

[Saxon]

Vitamin C: No, I never did. I wish I had.

Why do you wish you had and what would you have run for prolactin control?

 

[nicktoadvine]

This is an animal study.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320511004012

The main reason I stopped nandrolone was this study that showed that it did not decrease visceral fat when compared to an oral anabolic like oxandrolone. When people were switched from oxandrolone to nandrolone, their visceral fat increased. These patients were not exercising or on a special diet, so I do not know how this would translate to people who are eating clean and working out.

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.


I have visceral fat (diagnosed by one slice CT scan at L4-L5 area) due to my 34 years with HIV (HIV Lipodystrophy ). Luckily, It is not too bad as I keep working hard to keep it from expanding.

Too bad oxandrolone decreases HDL probably more than nandrolone. I love oxandrolone but I am afraid of long term HDL suppression.

https://www.bcbsnc.com/assets/services/public/pdfs/formulary/oxandrolone_um_criteria.pdf

Interesting they say this is bad for the liver, yet approved to treat alcoholic hepatitis.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nandrolone is not bad for the liver. It is not 17 alpha alkylated.

 

[nicktoadvine]

I’m sorry, I was referring to the Oxandrolone link. The insurance form said it was approved for alcoholic hepatitis. Just thought that was interesting considering you always hear it’s bad for the liver.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Oxandrolone raises ALT and AST by about 25-30% (dose of 25 mg/day or under). This raise is transient and these enzymes normalize after drug cessation. The main liver variables like bilirubin and GTT are not affected by oxandrolone, though. Like all anabolics or higher dose testosterone, it decreases HDL cholesterol.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Oxandrolone raises ALT and AST by about 25-30% (dose of 25 mg/day or under). This raise is transient and these enzymes normalize after drug cessation. The main liver variables like bilirubin and GTT are not affected by oxandrolone, though. Like all anabolics or higher dose testosterone, it decreases HDL cholesterol.

@Nelson Vergel could Nandrolone exacerbate fatty liver also did you experience any long-term side effects or disease from running it for 10 years that you are aware of?

I take 60 mgs weekly with 120 mgs of test enanthate.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

could Nandrolone exacerbate fatty liver also did you experience any long-term side effects or disease from running it for 10 years that you are aware of?

I would not know about any fatty liver issues. Triglycerides are linked to fatty liver. Nandrolone and other androgens decrease triglycerides.

Besides having high blood pressure (which I had even when I was young), I cannot say that nandrolone caused any long-term effects. It helped me survive.

There are some contradictory but concerning data on long-term anabolic use and atherosclerosis.

Anabolic Steroids: Effect on Muscle, Metabolism and the Heart

How the love of muscle can break a heart: Impact of anabolic androgenic steroids on skeletal muscle hypertrophy, metabolic and cardiovascular health Deaglan McCullough & Richard Webb & Kevin J. Enright & Katie E. Lane & Jim McVeigh & Claire E. Stewart & Ian G. Davies Abstract It is...

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