Androgel Generic 1% - 8 Year Use - Latest Bloodwork

[andro1percent]

As the title says I've been using 1% generic gel for 8 years. 4 pumps total. I recently learned that Androgel themselves does NOT recommend applying the gel the morning you get blood draws. Amazing how many doctors aren't aware of this. My doctor has been having me get my blood draws 2 hours after applying the gel for years. So, recently I did an experiment. The attached files show the results. Day's apart. Both were drawn at 7:30am. Fasting in both scenarios.

One shows 2 hours after applying the gel. The other shows no application of gel.

I also have bloodwork showing 4 hours after applying and 10 hours after applying the gel.

My next experiment is applying lotion to my shoulders a few hours after applying the gel. I'll do this for a few weeks before going to get blood draws.

 

[Systemlord]

As the title says I've been using 1% generic gel for 8 years. 4 pumps total.

That's a strong response to topical gel!

I recently learned that Androgel themselves does NOT recommend applying the gel the morning you get blood draws. Amazing how many doctors aren't aware of this.

I had the same problem with my endocrinologist, I told him we need to check at midpoint or 6 hours mark, he brushed it off and said test in the morning hours before dosing. I told him if we do that we will always see a low value.

He said no way are your TT and FT levels changing that drastically within a 12 hour period.

Finally I got the actual clinical trial data from the company that makes the oral testosterone undecanoate showing the PK profiles. Only then did he say, "you were right".

 

[Melody68]

As the title says I've been using 1% generic gel for 8 years. 4 pumps total. I recently learned that Androgel themselves does NOT recommend applying the gel the morning you get blood draws. Amazing how many doctors aren't aware of this. My doctor has been having me get my blood draws 2 hours after applying the gel for years. So, recently I did an experiment. The attached files show the results. Day's apart. Both were drawn at 7:30am. Fasting in both scenarios.

One shows 2 hours after applying the gel. The other shows no application of gel.

I also have bloodwork showing 4 hours after applying and 10 hours after applying the gel.

My next experiment is applying lotion to my shoulders a few hours after applying the gel. I'll do this for a few weeks before going to get blood draws.

I had this exact same question about testing times yesterday after starting 5 gms 1% T gel three months ago. My endo got back to me and said I should apply my daily dose AFTER the blood test this morning, who knows?

After 3 months I don't feel any improvements of my symptoms. Andro1percent - your T gel response looks pretty good (at least the second test). Can I ask what dose you're taking? Are you content with the gel? From what a lot of people here say, it appears that the gel doesn't work that well, leading me to think that I'll eventually end up on injectibles . . .

 

[Seagal]

As the title says I've been using 1% generic gel for 8 years. 4 pumps total. I recently learned that Androgel themselves does NOT recommend applying the gel the morning you get blood draws. Amazing how many doctors aren't aware of this. My doctor has been having me get my blood draws 2 hours after applying the gel for years. So, recently I did an experiment. The attached files show the results. Day's apart. Both were drawn at 7:30am. Fasting in both scenarios.

One shows 2 hours after applying the gel. The other shows no application of gel.

I also have bloodwork showing 4 hours after applying and 10 hours after applying the gel.

My next experiment is applying lotion to my shoulders a few hours after applying the gel. I'll do this for a few weeks before going to get blood draws.

There is a study that showed stable T levels over 24h with a slight peak few hours after applying the gel. Given this assumption, one would measure T in the morning before gel application.
Then there seems to be another study (I don't have access to the paper), which shows the fluctuation in T level similar to yours. And similar to mine on androgel 1.6%, 2 hubs. I thought that range of daily variation is normal but when compared to young healthy males it seems to get too low.
IMO, none of the exogenous T application levels can be directly compared to the peak healthy normal levels.

What matters most: How have you been feeling with the androgel on that dosage?

 

[andro1percent]

I had this exact same question about testing times yesterday after starting 5 gms 1% T gel three months ago. My endo got back to me and said I should apply my daily dose AFTER the blood test this morning, who knows?

After 3 months I don't feel any improvements of my symptoms. Andro1percent - your T gel response looks pretty good (at least the second test). Can I ask what dose you're taking? Are you content with the gel? From what a lot of people here say, it appears that the gel doesn't work that well, leading me to think that I'll eventually end up on injectibles . . .

I am on 4 pump's of 1% Generic Gel. Each pump is 12.5 grams. So, 50 grams total per morning. "Seagal's" post above I think illuminates a possible issue with Gel and perhaps it's why most men don't like it. It can get you in the upper part of the high normal range. But within 24 hour's you can be substantially lower. I assume with injection's you probably never dip below 500 for long. If at all. Before your next injection. So guy's are probably hanging in the 800+ level's 24 hours a day.

I feel good overall but I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel a dip in energy by evening / night time. Unfortunately that is my only time to hit the gym. So, I usually have to grind through my workout's. However, I am going to try and experiment. I'm going to start applying lotion to my shoulder's in the late afternoon. MAYBE it will absorb some more T and keep my levels more consistent thru the evening and night. I'll do this for a few weeks and then get more bloodwork done

 

[andro1percent]

There is a study that showed stable T levels over 24h with a slight peak few hours after applying the gel. Given this assumption, one would measure T in the morning before gel application.
Then there seems to be another study (I don't have access to the paper), which shows the fluctuation in T level similar to yours. And similar to mine on androgel 1.6%, 2 hubs. I thought that range of daily variation is normal but when compared to young healthy males it seems to get too low.
IMO, none of the exogenous T application levels can be directly compared to the peak healthy normal levels.

What matters most: How have you been feeling with the androgel on that dosage?

Very interesting (the studies). I do think I feel the swing from morning when my level's are quite high to the late evening when I'm probably sub 400 total and half of what my free was in the morning. I am going to try applying lotion in the afternoon to see if it keeps my levels more consistent throughout the day. And then get some bloodwork done after a few weeks. Like you said though. I don't think it's possible to perfectly mimic a young man's level's. At least not right now.

 

[Melody68]

I got my blood results back. I've taken the same dose as you, 50 mg per day (I think you mean 12.5 mg per pump?) and after 3 months I've had my first blood test. I did my lab test the next morning after dosing, 23 hours later. My total testosterone was a miserable 167; I was astounded - that was HALF of my natural T at 331. My endo was surprised too, and asked me today to redo the test with less time between application and lab test. I did, doing a lab draw 5 hours and 15 minutes after my morning application. I'll let you know what happens, but it'll back up your argument if I come back at 500 or something like that. Who needs such a variance between peak and valley during the day? And I don't sleep well at night - could that be because of the lower T near the end of the daily cycle? I'd like to switch to injections, but I have a higher 50 or so hematocrit, and the endo thinks daily T is better than a 5-7 day injection period for that. Andro1%, why don't you switch to injections?

 

[Melody68]

Lab results back at 626, so 626 at 5.25 hours after my morning application of gel, vs 167 23 hours after application. Yeah that's working right. That's skin absorption problems, time for injectibles . . .

 

[Systemlord]

Lab results back at 626, so 626 at 5.25 hours after my morning application of gel, vs 167 23 hours after application. Yeah that's working right. That's skin absorption problems, time for injectibles . . .

That would put his average well below the mediocre 289 ng/dL trough level achieved on Jatenzo, which is dosed twice daily!

 

[Seagal]

Lab results back at 626, so 626 at 5.25 hours after my morning application of gel, vs 167 23 hours after application. Yeah that's working right. That's skin absorption problems, time for injectibles . . .

So much for the study average model of stable levels!

 

[Melody68]

So much for study models, you can say that again. And what about the average guy who never tests at two different times? He makes the assumption that his T levels are constant throughout the day, but in reality he could have a peak and trough that are far, far apart. I'm new to TRT, but I know at this point that the entire onus is on me, myself, to see that it's right.

 

[Seagal]

Very interesting (the studies). I do think I feel the swing from morning when my level's are quite high to the late evening when I'm probably sub 400 total and half of what my free was in the morning. I am going to try applying lotion in the afternoon to see if it keeps my levels more consistent throughout the day. And then get some bloodwork done after a few weeks. Like you said though. I don't think it's possible to perfectly mimic a young man's level's. At least not right now.

You could try splitting up your daily dosage into morning and evening/night application, or an additional application at evening/night.