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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)
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<blockquote data-quote="RobRoy" data-source="post: 268001" data-attributes="member: 42893"><p>Ahhh, once again, a baseline observation that has nothing to do with men on testosterone and what testosterone does. What are you reporting has absolutely zero to do with middle testosterone, and how it affects vascular activity. Let's stick to testosterone and the secondary erythrocytosis. The secondary erythrocytosis that people get from living at high altitude also doesn't cause harm. Altitude sickness is a completely other issue. This is what read a lot always did is get sidetracked on a non-related issue. Let's stick to the 85 years that testosterone has been used and abused and the fact that it has never caused harm. Remember literally millions of me on right now are using it, and are not under the supervision of the physician and the most common side effect is a secondary erythrocytosis. There is not an epidemic of heart attacks, strokes, or blood clots in these men. Just like we didn't see an epidemic of prostate cancer in men that were on testosterone when it was first being used, even though the party line for 70 years was that it would cause a worsening prostate cancer or cause prostate cancer. Testosterone increases red blood cell deformability. Look at the diameter of a red blood cell and some of the capillaries it has to go through and their diameter. They go through single file. So the question still remains. Are the over 80 million people that live above 2500 m at risk because they have a secondary erythrocytosis? When has the secondary erythrocytosis from testosterone been shown to cause harm? There wasn't even an adequate test for testosterone until the 1970s. Prior to that men were given testosterone without being able to measure testosterone, precisely or even at all. Yet, no harm. We were all taught to fear a baseline secondary erythrocytosis because of polycythemia vera. We were taught to fear hematocrit because of studies done in laboratories, using rigid glass viscometer's. A primary erythrocytosis causes harm, but not a secondary erythrocytosis. Let me ask you another question. Why do we not have our patients with COPD get phlebotomies? They also develop a secondary erythrocytosis. Why do we not have our patients with sleep apnea and a secondary erythrocytosis donate blood? These are all also a secondary erythrocytosis. The difference between these other conditions and testosterone is that testosterone has so many positive affects on vascular reactivity. None of them have been shown to cause harm but we have been taught to fear testosterone.</p><p>But the question still remains when has testosterone and the secondary erythrocytosis that causes ever been shown to cause harm in any study or even when it's been abused? In 85 years of use and abuse I believe we would've seen it by now don't you?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RobRoy, post: 268001, member: 42893"] Ahhh, once again, a baseline observation that has nothing to do with men on testosterone and what testosterone does. What are you reporting has absolutely zero to do with middle testosterone, and how it affects vascular activity. Let's stick to testosterone and the secondary erythrocytosis. The secondary erythrocytosis that people get from living at high altitude also doesn't cause harm. Altitude sickness is a completely other issue. This is what read a lot always did is get sidetracked on a non-related issue. Let's stick to the 85 years that testosterone has been used and abused and the fact that it has never caused harm. Remember literally millions of me on right now are using it, and are not under the supervision of the physician and the most common side effect is a secondary erythrocytosis. There is not an epidemic of heart attacks, strokes, or blood clots in these men. Just like we didn't see an epidemic of prostate cancer in men that were on testosterone when it was first being used, even though the party line for 70 years was that it would cause a worsening prostate cancer or cause prostate cancer. Testosterone increases red blood cell deformability. Look at the diameter of a red blood cell and some of the capillaries it has to go through and their diameter. They go through single file. So the question still remains. Are the over 80 million people that live above 2500 m at risk because they have a secondary erythrocytosis? When has the secondary erythrocytosis from testosterone been shown to cause harm? There wasn't even an adequate test for testosterone until the 1970s. Prior to that men were given testosterone without being able to measure testosterone, precisely or even at all. Yet, no harm. We were all taught to fear a baseline secondary erythrocytosis because of polycythemia vera. We were taught to fear hematocrit because of studies done in laboratories, using rigid glass viscometer's. A primary erythrocytosis causes harm, but not a secondary erythrocytosis. Let me ask you another question. Why do we not have our patients with COPD get phlebotomies? They also develop a secondary erythrocytosis. Why do we not have our patients with sleep apnea and a secondary erythrocytosis donate blood? These are all also a secondary erythrocytosis. The difference between these other conditions and testosterone is that testosterone has so many positive affects on vascular reactivity. None of them have been shown to cause harm but we have been taught to fear testosterone. But the question still remains when has testosterone and the secondary erythrocytosis that causes ever been shown to cause harm in any study or even when it's been abused? In 85 years of use and abuse I believe we would've seen it by now don't you? [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)
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