1. #1

    Has anyone stopped their AI and felt better?

    With .20mg anastrozole, my e2 usually stuck around 18-20. I made a decision a few weeks back to experiment with not taking my AI and felt a boost around 5 days in. Two weeks in and Im feeling extremely good, similar to the sweet spot when I started TRT that hit around the 5th-6th week mark.

    Has anyone else experienced this, and decided to quit their AI unless they are in dire need (super high estrogen, severe acne breakout, gyno issue, etc)?

    Do some men just feel better with a higher Test to Estrogen ratio?

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  3. #2
    Many of us feel better with slightly higher estradiol levels. Remember, the T/E ratio is a theory, not an absolute, and should only be used as one guide in determining protocol success. Estradiol is not a waste product that men need to eliminate as much as possible. Review the posts here on the Forum, Nelson, in particular, has drawn attention to multiple studies indicating that e2 is essential for male health.

    What was your estradiol level that prompted the use of an AI? The only reason to take it is when levels are out of range and symptoms are present or gyno is presenting.

  4. #3
    Absolutely, many of us feel better with a higher E2 level. It is dangerous to assume that every guy on TRT needs an AI and a red flag when a Doc starts out all his new guys with an AI as part of a one-size-fits-all protocol. (in the absence of lab tests or symptoms proving otherwise)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankUnderwood View Post
    With .20mg anastrozole, my e2 usually stuck around 18-20. I made a decision a few weeks back to experiment with not taking my AI and felt a boost around 5 days in. Two weeks in and Im feeling extremely good, similar to the sweet spot when I started TRT that hit around the 5th-6th week mark.

    Has anyone else experienced this, and decided to quit their AI unless they are in dire need (super high estrogen, severe acne breakout, gyno issue, etc)?

    Do some men just feel better with a higher Test to Estrogen ratio?
    18-20 is rather low, especially if it's a standard(boy do I hate the word "standard" here as it implies it's the one you should use) test.

    It's wrong to assume every man needs an AI and that there's a good level that fits all men. I've never touched an AI. I hope never to need one.

  6. #5

  7. #6
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    I've been on TRT for over 2 years and thankfully I've never used an AI.

  8. #7
    for me trt without AI >>>> trt with AI
    with AI I have a feeling my T isnt working 100% I can't expain why but thats my experience

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankUnderwood View Post
    With .20mg anastrozole, my e2 usually stuck around 18-20. I made a decision a few weeks back to experiment with not taking my AI and felt a boost around 5 days in. Two weeks in and Im feeling extremely good, similar to the sweet spot when I started TRT that hit around the 5th-6th week mark.

    Has anyone else experienced this, and decided to quit their AI unless they are in dire need (super high estrogen, severe acne breakout, gyno issue, etc)?

    Do some men just feel better with a higher Test to Estrogen ratio?
    Some do and some don't, E2 range is such a unique thing, I would agree that 18-20 is on the too low side. I've been all over the world with E and I'd rather be too high, than too low.

  10. #9
    I struggle with high E2 and can't seem to get arimidex ever dialed in. Instead of doing 2 injections per wk would it make sense to do 3 or 4 injections per wk to help lower E2.

  11. #10
    Super Moderator Nelson Vergel's Avatar
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    There is a reason why evolution has made aromatization to happen to 0.3% of testosterone: to balance and enhance it with the effects of estradiol. Anything that gets in the way of that is not good, in my opinion.

    Role of estradiol: Video

    I have never taken aromatase inhibitors.

    Remember: All studies on estradiol in men were done in men with testosterone under 400 ng/dL as an average. Those men are not us!

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lowe2sucks View Post
    for me trt without AI >>>> trt with AI
    with AI I have a feeling my T isnt working 100% I can't expain why but thats my experience
    Pretty clearly that's because your E2 was too low. That explains why.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankUnderwood View Post
    With .20mg anastrozole, my e2 usually stuck around 18-20. I made a decision a few weeks back to experiment with not taking my AI and felt a boost around 5 days in. Two weeks in and Im feeling extremely good, similar to the sweet spot when I started TRT that hit around the 5th-6th week mark.

    Has anyone else experienced this, and decided to quit their AI unless they are in dire need (super high estrogen, severe acne breakout, gyno issue, etc)?

    Do some men just feel better with a higher Test to Estrogen ratio?
    Yes definitely. I was started on TRT with an AI right from the beginning. After 3 months of poor results (and one full month of hell) I quit the AI and never looked back. Things began improving within several days but it took as long as two months for a full recovery from crashed E2.

    I support Nelson's position regarding AIs and "high" E2. Indeed, what is high E2 in a man on TRT?

    On the Internet you can find many posts about the effects of high E2 but they are not supported by facts or by clinical studies. There's an assumption that "female" hormones must be bad for men but we really don't have good clinical data to establish the ideal levels in men - especially men on TRT. Within the subset of men on TRT there are a number of different protocols and different levels of testosterone from day to day. So it's tricky to make any absolute statements.

    At this point each of us must learn through experience what levels work for us: what works for our particular bodies and our protocol and our other meds and supplements and our health history and so on.

  14. #13
    I'm in the opposite camp... Been on TRT for approximately 9 months, test cyp exclusively, and considering an AI to see if lowering my e2 will make me feel "better" as an experiment. I'm thinking of taking .25mg and seeing what the results are.

    My current protocol is 50mg every 3.5 days.

    TT 952
    Estradiol Ultrasensitive 49

  15. #14
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike7 View Post
    I'm in the opposite camp... Been on TRT for approximately 9 months, test cyp exclusively, and considering an AI to see if lowering my e2 will make me feel "better" as an experiment. I'm thinking of taking .25mg and seeing what the results are.

    My current protocol is 50mg every 3.5 days.

    TT 952
    Estradiol Ultrasensitive 49
    I don't think your estradiol is too low, but there's nothing wrong with experimenting. Trying to feel better.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    I don't think your estradiol is too low, but there's nothing wrong with experimenting. Trying to feel better.
    All in all I feel good. However, I feel like crying, am overly sensitive, and can have some mood swings. But I am far better off than before TRT in regards to mood & temper.

    My goal would be to lower it slightly by taking the minimum AI and seeing what effect that has. If things improve then I'll run a 6 week course, get blood work, and proceed from there.

  17. #16
    How's libido mike7? Better or worse then before trt?

  18. #17
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike7 View Post
    All in all I feel good. However, I feel like crying, am overly sensitive, and can have some mood swings. But I am far better off than before TRT in regards to mood & temper.

    My goal would be to lower it slightly by taking the minimum AI and seeing what effect that has. If things improve then I'll run a 6 week course, get blood work, and proceed from there.
    I like your plan.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sportsfan8724 View Post
    How's libido mike7? Better or worse then before trt?
    Now that I have things fairly well sorted out my libido is good. There have been times were it fluctuated a bit.

    I was doing injections EOD to try to reduce estrogen and it did nothing for me. I actually feel better at X2 per week.

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