Is DHT that important?? Maybe Not ..

1. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.
   Hey guys. I’m wondering if anyone on this forum has experienced “reflex-hyperandrogenicity” from taking Finasteride. A quick Google search will show you its all over the hairloss forums. I seem to have an extreme case which I developed while taking Finasteride – symptoms were increased sebum production on face and scalp, accelerated hairloss, increased libido, but the horrible part is the “MPB itch” I developed around 3 weeks after starting Fin. This started as a slightly tingly sensation above my right temple but developed into a burning, itchy pain which is all along my frontal hairline and 4 months after stopping Fin shows no signs of stopping. Sometimes the pain is excruciating and the itch is so irritating its having a huge effect on my personal and professional life. I wake up every morning with a ridiculously greasy scalp and painful itch, and I have to deal with it every minute of every day. There are no signs of inflammation or redness, no dandruff or evidence of “seborrheic dermatitis”. I’ve obviously spent the last 6 months researching this extensively and I believe Fin has caused this by PERMANENTLY “upregulating“(multiplying and making them more sensitive) the androgen receptors in my scalp (these control sebum production and are responsible for hairloss, and thus the itch/pain associated with accelerated hairloss). Its generally accepted that the hair in the front of your head is more sensitive to Testosterone/DHT, so I believe the hugely increased sensitivity I have from Fin is causing this itch/pain in the front of my head. There are studies, some quite recent, that show Finasteride intensely upregulates androgen receptors, months or years after stopping the drug (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21557276
   1​
   for example)

This is an extremely rare reaction and usually resolves itself as soon as you stop taking Fin. There are a handful of guys on the hairloss forums however that got this condition from taking Fin and are still dealing with it 2, 3, 5 years after stopping. The thought of that terrifies me because the 24/7 scalp itch/pain, coupled with the greasiness and hugely accelerated hairloss, have made my life a living hell. It shows no signs of getting better and I’ve tried every topical/medicated shampoo in the hopes of treating it. Sometimes I can’t sleep because the itching and pain is so bad. I’m on the waiting list to see a dermatologist (NHS in the UK) but I’ve been waiting too long so I’m now paying upwards of £1000 to see a private dermatologist and an endocrinologist – as I believe permanent damage has been done to my endocrine system. I’ve researched enough to know that this isn’t really treatable though; the only possible solutions are anti-androgens which are way stronger than Fin and come with much worse side effects, and will potentially cause a “reflex” androgenic reaction of their own. As I’m sure you guys can relate, taking that pill was the worst mistake of my life and one I’ll regret forever. I am beyond angry that this isn’t even listed as a side effect when I could potentially be dealing with this hell for years to come.

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i am still experiencing hyperandrogenity my dht is low low but i am too much aggressive , chasing girls, trying to flirt etc i dont know why, i dont feel proviron/mesterolone(i used to)

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I went through a period like this a few years before I crashed

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lexer said:

I am somewhat skeptical as to just how true some of these propecia claims are. If things were that bad, merck would of discontinued it for hair loss at the very least. A lot of the anti propecia forums are created by ambulance chasing attorneys hoping to get soke money. Where are all the class action lawsuits?

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lexer said:

Im not saying no one gets side effects, i just think the amount of true side effects are exaggerated a lot.
Propecia blocks an enzyme that converts testosterone to dht similar to how arimidex blocks an emzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen. Its amazing how men who use arimidex for years always recover. I know they are 2 different drugs but if you take base line DHT blood levels prior to starting propecia and then get similar results after stopping propecia, why would there be side effects if dht levels revert to normal levels again?

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The Post-Finasteride Syndrome is a serious state of permanent sexual, mental, and physical side effects which do not resolve after quitting the drug, most often accompanied by an acquired form of secondary hypogonadism and post-drug loss of androgenic action, which remains highly resistant to hormonal treatments aimed at restoring Testosterone/DHT's effects in the male body to pre-drug virility levels. It is also surmised by the few specialists in the medical field that a type of receptor or “brain damage” has occurred. As often seen with such damage, recovery is very slow or now questioned whether possible at all. Needless to say, men suffering from PFS are plagued with any physical, mental, and emotional symptoms that have led to long term depression, marital problems and divorce, and now several reports cases of suicide.

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lexer said:

I have a friend who is a year younger than I. He had his testosterone levels checked through Quest and his results are as follows.
total T - 396
Free T - 69
estradiol- 24
DHT - 62 ( range 35 - 80)
cortisol, prolactin, and sbhc were all normal

he had his blood work taken a second time and the results were similar.
if you look closely, you will notice both his total T and free T are “ low normal” but his DHT levels are higher end of normal. The whole reason for him getting tested was a low libido, lower energy. He works out and was eating clean with no medical issues other than low T, similar to my situation.

his doctor prescribed testosterone injections 100 mgs per week. He was tested after 6 weeks and his total Testosterone on day 7 was 607 with Free T being 109, estradiol being 28, but DHT being 112 ( very high). His libido was very high as was his energy. His doctor maintained the T dosage but also put him on 1mg of finasteride. After 8 weeks he was retested and his total T was 641 and free T was 111, DHT was 38.
his libido was still high as was his energy despite his DHT level being reduced rather dramatically.
so here is what i find interesteing. Prior to starting T , both his total and free t were low normal while his DHt was the higher end of normal and yet his libido was low.
now the reverse, higher total and free T but low dht and his libido is very high. He obviously converts a lot of T to dht naturally. However, his results clearly demonstrate that DHt does nothing for his libido but free T definitely does.
he has been on this protocol for almost 18 months with the same results with finasteride.
anyone have an opinion on this?

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lexer said:

Im not saying no one gets side effects, i just think the amount of true side effects are exaggerated a lot.
Propecia blocks an enzyme that converts testosterone to dht similar to how arimidex blocks an emzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen. Its amazing how men who use arimidex for years always recover. I know they are 2 different drugs but if you take base line DHT blood levels prior to starting propecia and then get similar results after stopping propecia, why would there be side effects if dht levels revert to normal levels again?

Click to expand...

lexer said:

I have a friend who is a year younger than I. He had his testosterone levels checked through Quest and his results are as follows.
total T - 396
Free T - 69
estradiol- 24
DHT - 62 ( range 35 - 80)
cortisol, prolactin, and sbhc were all normal

he had his blood work taken a second time and the results were similar.
if you look closely, you will notice both his total T and free T are “ low normal” but his DHT levels are higher end of normal. The whole reason for him getting tested was a low libido, lower energy. He works out and was eating clean with no medical issues other than low T, similar to my situation.

his doctor prescribed testosterone injections 100 mgs per week. He was tested after 6 weeks and his total Testosterone on day 7 was 607 with Free T being 109, estradiol being 28, but DHT being 112 ( very high). His libido was very high as was his energy. His doctor maintained the T dosage but also put him on 1mg of finasteride. After 8 weeks he was retested and his total T was 641 and free T was 111, DHT was 38.
his libido was still high as was his energy despite his DHT level being reduced rather dramatically.
so here is what i find interesteing. Prior to starting T , both his total and free t were low normal while his DHt was the higher end of normal and yet his libido was low.
now the reverse, higher total and free T but low dht and his libido is very high. He obviously converts a lot of T to dht naturally. However, his results clearly demonstrate that DHt does nothing for his libido but free T definitely does.
he has been on this protocol for almost 18 months with the same results with finasteride.
anyone have an opinion on this?

Click to expand...