1. #1

    New member - Looking for advice on TRT in Ontario, Canada

    Hi everyone,

    I'm brand new to this community, but have done quite a bit of reading here and elsewhere.

    I'm a 31 year old father of two young boys and have recently got tests back showing very low testosterone. I've had issues with depression, lack of motivation, brain fog, bad memory, etc for a number of years now and numerous visits to the doctor have only yielded prescriptions for anti-depressants (which I never did take). I did however convince him to at least have my T levels tested. The first test was about a year and half ago and total testosterone was 9.6 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L. He said that I'm within the normal range and everyone gets sad sometimes, gave me some SSRIs.

    I went back in recently complaining of the same symptoms (pretty much everything listed as potential for low T), most importantly the brain fog and depression though and he allowed me to get another blood test. This time my level is actually below the 'normal' range: 7.6 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L. So, I have a follow up appointment booked with him for May 1st.

    I'm worried that he's still going to be resistant to treating me and the symptoms are becoming unbearable. I'm having trouble at work and worried that I'll eventually lose my job because I can't think straight and that's basically what I get paid to do. My relationship with my wife is suffering since I'm basically a zombie most of the time. I'm depressed as shit. My sex drive is practically non-existent. etc. etc. etc.

    My plan is to simply request a referral to a specialist, since I'm sure he would have no idea how to properly treat it. Is he legally allowed to refuse a request for a second opinion? What if he'll only refer me to another useless doctor that will also refuse to treat me? If I come in with a specific doctor request does he have to honour it?

    Either way, I need to know where I want to go and right now I'm not sure. I live in Kitchener, which is about 45 minutes or so from Hamilton and 1 hour - 1.5 hours from Toronto. I will drive wherever I need to though, so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    The only doctors I know of in the area are Dr. Larry Komer, but I think his wait list is like a year long and Dr. Michael Greenspan, who I heard of in these forums (Madman's doc). I looked up Greenspan though and the reviews are pretty terrible on rate mds.

    If anyone knows of a good doctor in Waterloo region, that would be great, but again, anybody in Southern Ontario will do.

    Also, if anyone has advice for me in general, I'd love to hear it. I've been struggling for years and am now finally excited to have a potential solution. I'm really worried though that I won't be able to get it or that it will take years to finally get through all the hoops.

    Thanks a lot

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  3. #2
    Any doctor that says you must be alright for the fact that you're in the normal ranges simply doesn't have any understanding of male hormones, therefore it's easier to chase labs number when you're clueless about such matters. Surprised there was no testing to determine why testosterone levels are low when considering in our early 20's we should be north of 600 ng/dL and as we age past 30 it starts dropping.

    You don't have much more to lose and will never make it to your twilight years because you have the hormone levels of someone 100+ years old. Most healthy 80 year olds have higher levels. The healthcare system in Canada makes it difficult to get TRT, they put roadblocks in the path of doctors. TRT is looked at as taboo and the medical community doesn't like TRT.

    SSRIs might mask the symptoms of low T but will fail to address your hormone deficiencies, doctors are trained to hand out SSRI's like it's candy as it costs too much to actually look for the cause of your medical problems. It's a business decision, everything at the end of the day comes down to money. You need to go private as the state healthcare system is setup in a way to deny you TRT.

  4. #3
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    I should also note a few more things:

    I'm 5' 9", 185 lbs, ~20% bf (guess). I do lift weights practically religiously now; 6 times / week. I get up at 4:30 just so I can, because if I don't I'm typically a complete mess.

    My diet is also very clean. I've worked with a naturopath to get tested for problematic foods and to try and elevate my testosterone naturally. I restrict processed carbs and gluten and eat a lot of meat and fat. I also go to bed really early, so I probably average around 7 hours / night. Plus I supplement with omega 3, magnesium, vit D, zinc, probiotic, mutli, calcium, creatine and glutamine.

  5. #4
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    Thanks for the quick reply Systemlord.

    Sounds like you're spot on and sadly this is the truth.

    I don't know if there is a private option in Canada, is there? What private clinics would you recommend? I assume it would have to be in the States?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 5peaker View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Systemlord.

    Sounds like you're spot on and sadly this is the truth.

    I don't know if there is a private option in Canada, is there? What private clinics would you recommend? I assume it would have to be in the States?
    I'm in the US and doctors here are mostly clueless, few know how to properly do TRT. I'm saving up money to join up with Defy Medical as most insurance doctors just have their hands tied up and refuse to manage estrogen which is crucial if TRT is going to be successful. I'm sure you will get many responses from other members, we have a few canadian members here.

  7. #6
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5peaker View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Systemlord.

    Sounds like you're spot on and sadly this is the truth.

    I don't know if there is a private option in Canada, is there? What private clinics would you recommend? I assume it would have to be in the States?



    PM me when you have time!

  8. #7
    Member madman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5peaker View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I'm brand new to this community, but have done quite a bit of reading here and elsewhere.

    I'm a 31 year old father of two young boys and have recently got tests back showing very low testosterone. I've had issues with depression, lack of motivation, brain fog, bad memory, etc for a number of years now and numerous visits to the doctor have only yielded prescriptions for anti-depressants (which I never did take). I did however convince him to at least have my T levels tested. The first test was about a year and half ago and total testosterone was 9.6 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L. He said that I'm within the normal range and everyone gets sad sometimes, gave me some SSRIs.

    I went back in recently complaining of the same symptoms (pretty much everything listed as potential for low T), most importantly the brain fog and depression though and he allowed me to get another blood test. This time my level is actually below the 'normal' range: 7.6 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L. So, I have a follow up appointment booked with him for May 1st.

    I'm worried that he's still going to be resistant to treating me and the symptoms are becoming unbearable. I'm having trouble at work and worried that I'll eventually lose my job because I can't think straight and that's basically what I get paid to do. My relationship with my wife is suffering since I'm basically a zombie most of the time. I'm depressed as shit. My sex drive is practically non-existent. etc. etc. etc.

    My plan is to simply request a referral to a specialist, since I'm sure he would have no idea how to properly treat it. Is he legally allowed to refuse a request for a second opinion? What if he'll only refer me to another useless doctor that will also refuse to treat me? If I come in with a specific doctor request does he have to honour it?

    Either way, I need to know where I want to go and right now I'm not sure. I live in Kitchener, which is about 45 minutes or so from Hamilton and 1 hour - 1.5 hours from Toronto. I will drive wherever I need to though, so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    The only doctors I know of in the area are Dr. Larry Komer, but I think his wait list is like a year long and Dr. Michael Greenspan, who I heard of in these forums (Madman's doc). I looked up Greenspan though and the reviews are pretty terrible on rate mds.

    If anyone knows of a good doctor in Waterloo region, that would be great, but again, anybody in Southern Ontario will do.

    Also, if anyone has advice for me in general, I'd love to hear it. I've been struggling for years and am now finally excited to have a potential solution. I'm really worried though that I won't be able to get it or that it will take years to finally get through all the hoops.

    Thanks a lot
    To be honest that is the mindset of most md's....................."your levels are still in range they say, no need for treatment"..........sure doc sure!

    A total t level of 9.6 nmol/L is horrible and any knowledgeable doctor would treat you.

    Second time around you tested a 7.6 nmol/L......................he would have to treat you but I would not let him due to his ignorance/stupidity/lack of compassion and understanding.

    Doctors in the know regarding trt consider 8-12 nmol/L to be the GREY ZONE where at those levels it is common for men to experience low t symptoms and under the Canadian Guidelines for Treatment Of Low Testosterone one would qualify for a TRIAL of trt and OHIP will cover it.

    Trust me the knowledgeable doctors are far and few and even the ones that have a great deal of experience can be stubbornly set in their ways.

    Worst case scenario is find a doctor that will treat you to prescribe the testosterone and you be your own advocate and manage your own protocol.

    I as well as many others will be here to guide you in your journey and offer insight/guidance in helping you get yourself healthy again!

  9. #8
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    Thanks a lot Madman, much appreciated!

    I actually did just call my doctor's office and I'm getting a referral to a local endo. So, I have some hope...

    Hopefully she has experience with this, I know I'm going to want to make sure she's is willing to treat hcg and e2 levels as well as just T. Anything else I should look out for or recommend to her?

  10. #9
    Member Sean Mosher's Avatar
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    I believe "CoastWatcher" is from Canada and may be able to give you some insight/suggestions.


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