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FAT LOSS DIFFICULTY
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<blockquote data-quote="mcs" data-source="post: 212770" data-attributes="member: 12"><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong>Stats</strong>:</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">height: 170cm</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">age: 62</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">weight: 88kg</span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">Main observations:</span></strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">energy/calorie intake has not changed </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1). </span></li> </ul><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Ok. I realize that it's <strong>80% diet and 20% exercise </strong>to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...</span></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - <a href="https://app.box.com/s/9s3jdntdg79o6gt3xhwvjadke9374a4b" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">polymorphisms</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px"> that predispose me to unwanted fat.</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 15px">if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.</span></li> </ul><p><em><span style="font-size: 15px">See the conundrum I'm in?</span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">Diet: </span></strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.</span></p><p>M<span style="font-size: 15px">acros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. <span style="font-size: 15px">It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day. </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.</span></p><p> </p><p>RMR @ ~ 1500kcals.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post </span><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/cac-score-update.24146/page-2#post-209297" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">here</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px"> and </span><a href="https://innercircle.undoctored.com/forum/topics.aspx?ID=26919&PAGE=1#reply-189422" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">here</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px">.</span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, <em>I think it will be impossible to lean out.</em> Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.) </span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">HRT: </span></strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my </span><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/dessicated-thyroid-continues-having-zero-effect-on-tsh-elevated-ft3-normal-ft4.24360/#post-211819" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">previous thyroid post</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px"> for full details.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. <em>But not doing anything has its risks also.</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Last Total T: 484 </span></p><p>F<span style="font-size: 15px">ree T: 63.9 </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">SHBG in mid 40s </span></p><p></p><p><em>Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT? </em></p><p></p><p><strong>Final Observations:</strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.).</span><em> <span style="font-size: 15px"><em>I am talking strictly body composition.</em></span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now. </span></p><p> </p><p><a href="https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/calories-in-calories-out" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">CICO</span></a><em><span style="font-size: 15px">. </span></em><span style="font-size: 15px">Yes, it does work as a general rule, however,</span><em><span style="font-size: 15px"> <em>can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?</em></span></em></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">At the end of the day, 2 things remain:</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?</span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">SIMPLE FORMULA:</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.</span></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="font-size: 15px">What else can it be?</span></em></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">Possible Solutions:</span></strong></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">- bump up the IF, increase </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">CR</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px">, </span><a href="https://www.healthline.com/health/one-meal-a-day" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">OMAD</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px">, </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-sparing_modified_fast" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">PSMF</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px">?</span></p><p>- <span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="font-size: 15px">cycle carbs (<a href="https://www.carbmanager.com/article/xt6whxiaacaawzpt/what-is-the-cyclical-ketogenic-diet-ckd/" target="_blank">CKD</a>)?</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Most noticeable increase is in </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_fat_distribution" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">Android Fat</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px">.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">This stands out as one of more important factors:</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Maybe I'm wrong, <em>but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.</em></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, </span><a href="https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324475" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 15px">SIBO</span></a><span style="font-size: 15px">.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now</span><em><span style="font-size: 15px">, <strong><em>then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones</em></strong> (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?</span></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mcs, post: 212770, member: 12"] [SIZE=15px][B]Stats[/B]: height: 170cm age: 62 weight: 88kg[/SIZE] [B][SIZE=15px]Main observations:[/SIZE][/B] [LIST] [*][SIZE=15px]body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s. [/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]energy/calorie intake has not changed [/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1). [/SIZE] [/LIST] [SIZE=15px]Ok. I realize that it's [B]80% diet and 20% exercise [/B]to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...[/SIZE] [LIST] [*][SIZE=15px]what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - [URL='https://app.box.com/s/9s3jdntdg79o6gt3xhwvjadke9374a4b'][SIZE=15px]polymorphisms[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px] that predispose me to unwanted fat.[/SIZE][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=15px]if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.[/SIZE] [/LIST] [I][SIZE=15px]See the conundrum I'm in?[/SIZE][/I] [SIZE=15px]The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).[/SIZE] [B][SIZE=15px]Diet: [/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=15px]I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.[/SIZE] M[SIZE=15px]acros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. [SIZE=15px]It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day. [/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.[/SIZE] RMR @ ~ 1500kcals. [SIZE=15px]CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post [/SIZE][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/cac-score-update.24146/page-2#post-209297'][SIZE=15px]here[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px] and [/SIZE][URL='https://innercircle.undoctored.com/forum/topics.aspx?ID=26919&PAGE=1#reply-189422'][SIZE=15px]here[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px].[/SIZE] [B][SIZE=15px]Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:[/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=15px]PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, [I]I think it will be impossible to lean out.[/I] Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.) [/SIZE] [B][SIZE=15px]HRT: [/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=15px]Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my [/SIZE][URL='https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/dessicated-thyroid-continues-having-zero-effect-on-tsh-elevated-ft3-normal-ft4.24360/#post-211819'][SIZE=15px]previous thyroid post[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px] for full details. Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. [I]But not doing anything has its risks also.[/I] Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower. Last Total T: 484 [/SIZE] F[SIZE=15px]ree T: 63.9 SHBG in mid 40s [/SIZE] [I]Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT? [/I] [B]Final Observations:[/B] [SIZE=15px]In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.).[/SIZE][I] [SIZE=15px][I]I am talking strictly body composition.[/I][/SIZE][/I] [SIZE=15px]The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now. [/SIZE] [URL='https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/calories-in-calories-out'][SIZE=15px]CICO[/SIZE][/URL][I][SIZE=15px]. [/SIZE][/I][SIZE=15px]Yes, it does work as a general rule, however,[/SIZE][I][SIZE=15px] [I]can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?[/I][/SIZE][/I] [SIZE=15px] At the end of the day, 2 things remain:[/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid) 2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?[/SIZE] [B][SIZE=15px]SIMPLE FORMULA:[/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=15px]If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.[/SIZE] [I][SIZE=15px]What else can it be?[/SIZE][/I] [B][SIZE=15px]Possible Solutions:[/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=15px]- bump up the IF, increase [/SIZE][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction'][SIZE=15px]CR[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px], [/SIZE][URL='https://www.healthline.com/health/one-meal-a-day'][SIZE=15px]OMAD[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px], [/SIZE][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-sparing_modified_fast'][SIZE=15px]PSMF[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px]?[/SIZE] - [SIZE=15px][SIZE=15px]cycle carbs ([URL='https://www.carbmanager.com/article/xt6whxiaacaawzpt/what-is-the-cyclical-ketogenic-diet-ckd/']CKD[/URL])?[/SIZE] Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.[/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]Most noticeable increase is in [/SIZE][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_fat_distribution'][SIZE=15px]Android Fat[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px].[/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]This stands out as one of more important factors: Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.[/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]Maybe I'm wrong, [I]but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.[/I][/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, [/SIZE][URL='https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324475'][SIZE=15px]SIBO[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=15px].[/SIZE] [SIZE=15px]Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious. I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now[/SIZE][I][SIZE=15px], [B][I]then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones[/I][/B] (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?[/SIZE][/I] [/QUOTE]
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