Dr. Rouzier interview on "Estrogen in Men"

[JimBob]

Thanks to Chopsuey for posting this within another thread. I thought this interview might be worthy of its own thread for all the members who might have missed it buried in that other thread.

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

[Powerdome]

What I want to know is why the doctors round table is not being uploaded to the TOT podcast app???
The last one was Nov 1. Those are the most valuable episodes. I messaged Campbell but he didnt reply...rude!

 

[Vince Carter]

Synopsis: we don't know what level of E is optimal, healthy, or not healthy. (just like the multi-page thread).

I just saved you two hours of your life.

 

[rafapark]

I thought it was very informative and well documented. I really liked the presentation and I believe everyone in this forum should look at it.

 

[Chopsuey]

I thought it was very informative and well documented. I really liked the presentation and I believe everyone in this forum should look at it.

I thought so too. Enough for me to let my estrogen rise naturally and see what happens.

 

[rafapark]

I thought so too. Enough for me to let my estrogen rise naturally and see what happens.

That is exactly what I will do. Enough of this Estradiol control paranoia and blaming Estradiol for everything. As you can see from that presentation and other sources the "20 to 30" range for "ideal" Estradiol is not based on science or any study.

 

[Vince]

Many members have been trying to match their shbg level with their estrogen levels. I personally never had any issues with estrogen, but I know with people with low shbg it's all completely different ballgame.

 

[mooseman109]

We are all different somfollowint numbers alone will not always be best. I can say that when my E2 crept up from mid teens to 33 ish, i had symptoms. Anxiety, shortness of breath, tight chest, hard nipples, emotions i never deal with. I went and did an echo cardiogram is how serious it got. I came off hcg amd dhea, both which pushed my e2up and in a week everything went back to normal. That is my experience with it. Your experience may vary

 

[Chopsuey]

Interesting. From my understanding the side effects of rising hormones(anxiety, depression, emotional etc) can take a while to stabilize. I believe Dr. Nichols said to give it at least a month and go through the side effects and everything should be better after.

I switched my protocol after talking to Dr. Nichols and viewing his TOT interview, but was still on the fence. The Dr. Rouzier interview calmed my nerves and I'm going to give it a shot for 2 months and see how it goes. I'm on day 8 now I believe, switched to daily injections, no ai and 50mg of dhea per day. I do have a bit of increased anxiety but so far so good. My libido has been none existent before and seems the same now but I have been noticing nocturnal erections so seems something is moving in the right direction.

 

[Gman86]

Even though this Rouzier interview has stirred up a lot of controversy, I think overall it has had a really positive impact. I think it is a good thing that he is getting the message out about all the benefits of E2, and sounds like guys on here fear E2 less after listening to him.

Me, personally, am going to take the safe approach. But just as everyone here should, I respect everyone's opinions on the matter, and respect everyone’s decisions in regards to how they want to manage their protocols. I’m just going to try and keep my E2 levels at the top of the normal range, or slightly higher, as long as no negative subjective symptoms are experienced. I’ll do this, and wait for more substantial studies to come out, in regards to men and higher estradiol levels than which are seen in young healthy males. Imo, all the studies Rouzier referenced were extremely flawed, and I personally do not feel comfortable basing my health on them. But again, I respect everyone’s opinions and views on the matter.

Plus, most guys here are not going to take exogenous estradiol, even after watching his interview. We’re just basically talking about guys letting their E2 rise to wherever it wants to, without controlling it with an ai. So I think there’s an extremely low risk of harm that can be done by more guys here staying away from ai’s. I think overall that’s a very good thing. So even though I disagree with Dr. Rouzier’s opinions on raising E2 5-7x above what is ever seen in nature, I think his overall message, and the overall reception here, has been a very positive one, and I’m really glad he took the time to do the interview with Jay.

 

[Gman86]

We are all different somfollowint numbers alone will not always be best. I can say that when my E2 crept up from mid teens to 33 ish, i had symptoms. Anxiety, shortness of breath, tight chest, hard nipples, emotions i never deal with. I went and did an echo cardiogram is how serious it got. I came off hcg amd dhea, both which pushed my e2up and in a week everything went back to normal. That is my experience with it. Your experience may vary

What is your SHBG level, and where does your E2 sit now? Glad all those symptoms went away after your E2 went down a little.

 

[madman]

Interesting. From my understanding the side effects of rising hormones(anxiety, depression, emotional etc) can take a while to stabilize. I believe Dr. Nichols said to give it at least a month and go through the side effects and everything should be better after.

I switched my protocol after talking to Dr. Nichols and viewing his TOT interview, but was still on the fence. The Dr. Rouzier interview calmed my nerves and I'm going to give it a shot for 2 months and see how it goes. I'm on day 8 now I believe, switched to daily injections, no ai and 50mg of dhea per day. I do have a bit of increased anxiety but so far so good. My libido has been none existent before and seems the same now but I have been noticing nocturnal erections so seems something is moving in the right direction.

Whenever one starts trt or is on trt and tweaking protocol (increasing/decreasing) dose ones hormones will be in flux during the first 6 weeks until levels stabilize.....hence why it is common for one to experience ups/downs during this period.

Regardless of what one may experience when testosterone levels are in flux.....even once levels have stabilized to truly see how one will react to said dose it takes time for the body to adjust to those new levels and if anything one should give it 2-3 months on the new protocol.

Also when starting trt the shutdown of ones hpta has a major impact on how one feels and to top it of you have just added exogenous testosterone so as endogenous production is shutting down levels are also increasing due to exogenous testosterone administration (trt).

 

[JimBob]

Even though this Rouzier interview has stirred up a lot of controversy, I think overall it has had a really positive impact. I think it is a good thing that he is getting the message out about all the benefits of E2, and sounds like guys on here fear E2 less after listening to him.

Me, personally, am going to take the safe approach. But just as everyone here should, I respect everyone's opinions on the matter, and respect everyone’s decisions in regards to how they want to manage their protocols. I’m just going to try and keep my E2 levels at the top of the normal range, or slightly higher, as long as no negative subjective symptoms are experienced. I’ll do this, and wait for more substantial studies to come out, in regards to men and higher estradiol levels than which are seen in young healthy males. Imo, all the studies Rouzier referenced were extremely flawed, and I personally do not feel comfortable basing my health on them. But again, I respect everyone’s opinions and views on the matter.

Plus, most guys here are not going to take exogenous estradiol, even after watching his interview. We’re just basically talking about guys letting their E2 rise to wherever it wants to, without controlling it with an ai. So I think there’s an extremely low risk of harm that can be done by more guys here staying away from ai’s. I think overall that’s a very good thing. So even though I disagree with Dr. Rouzier’s opinions on raising E2 5-7x above what is ever seen in nature, I think his overall message, and the overall reception here, has been a very positive one, and I’m really glad he took the time to do the interview with Jay.

What exactly is this "normal range" you refer to for E2? Some say there is no such thing. What is it based on?

What are normal levels for healthy young males? Rouzier said between 75-90, I believe. Not sure what he bases this on.

 

[Gman86]

What exactly is this "normal range" you refer to for E2? Some say there is no such thing. What is it based on?

What are normal levels for healthy young males? Rouzier said between 75-90, I believe. Not sure what he bases this on.

Ya first off, I’m no doctor, and have not seen any labs from actually young men, so I could be totally wrong on this, but I’m almost positive that young males in their prime do not have E2 levels between 75-90. I would put all the money I have on that. So no idea where Rouzier got those figures, and Dr. Crisler doesn’t know either. I asked him in a previous post.

From my experience and research, the top end of the range, for young healthy males, is most likely around 40-55. That’s the top end remember. Most will fall in a range lower than that. For free E2, I think the top of the range is around 1.5. I’m really not 100% sure what the top end of the range is for total or free E2, tbh. I’m basing my opinion of where it should be on the ranges given to us by different companies that do lab work, my personal experience of where my E2 has been while not on TRT, where other male’s E2 levels have been, and studies that I’ve read regarding E2 testing. Other guys here might have different views on what the “normal range” for E2 is in healthy males, but I would probably say it’s 15-55 for total E2, and around 0.2-1.5 for free E2.

Sorry, I thought for some reason you were asking what the normal high end range for E2 is, that’s why the beginning of my reply refers to top end E2 levels. Then I realized you were just asking what the “normal range” for E2 was.

 

[Blackhawk]

Welcome to the Estromale forum!

Many members have been trying to match their shbg level with their estrogen levels. I personally never had any issues with estrogen, but I know with people with low shbg it's all completely different ballgame.

Counterpoint here: SHBG 52, do best with E2 sensitive 25-30.

 

[JimBob]

Ya first off, I’m no doctor, and have not seen any labs from actually young men, so I could be totally wrong on this, but I’m almost positive that young males in their prime do not have E2 levels between 75-90. I would put all the money I have on that. So no idea where Rouzier got those figures, and Dr. Crisler doesn’t know either. I asked him in a previous post.

From my experience and research, the top end of the range, for young healthy males, is most likely around 40-55. That’s the top end remember. Most will fall in a range lower than that. For free E2, I think the top of the range is around 1.5. I’m really not 100% sure what the top end of the range is for total or free E2, tbh. I’m basing my opinion of where it should be on the ranges given to us by different companies that do lab work, my personal experience of where my E2 has been while not on TRT, where other male’s E2 levels have been, and studies that I’ve read regarding E2 testing. Other guys here might have different views on what the “normal range” for E2 is in healthy males, but I would probably say it’s 15-55 for total E2, and around 0.2-1.5 for free E2.

Sorry, I thought for some reason you were asking what the normal high end range for E2 is, that’s why the beginning of my reply refers to top end E2 levels. Then I realized you were just asking what the “normal range” for E2 was.

Of course then, your numbers are based on a male population with declining T levels. If this is true, maybe Rouzier's 75-90 isn't far off. Is he trying to account for overall declining T levels? Could be.

 

[mooseman109]

What is your SHBG level, and where does your E2 sit now? Glad all those symptoms went away after your E2 went down a little.

My shbg is normally mid 40’s. E2 is mid 20’s. Just did labwork last week, to see what daily 10 mg of test monotherapy has done

 

[Powerdome]

BTW...why has the godfather of TRT Dr Crisler not been on the TOT round table for a while?
Campbell seems to jump ship with who his favorite DR is quite frequently?

Also, who was the Dr they were referring to that was an advocate for AIs, then changed after his wife said to get off them and follow Dr Rouzier's protocol?

Lots to talk about ha!

 

[fifty]

TRT Roundtable has turned into The View.

 

[JimBob]

BTW...why has the godfather of TRT Dr Crisler not been on the TOT round table for a while?
Campbell seems to jump ship with who his favorite DR is quite frequently?

Also, who was the Dr they were referring to that was an advocate for AIs, then changed after his wife said to get off them and follow Dr Rouzier's protocol?

Lots to talk about ha!

Awhile back, Dr. Crisler started a thread here regarding estradiol management, and his concern that some of his fellow docs were not managing it much at all, and letting it run wild. That was his swan song on the Roundtable. Jay wants an apology from Dr. Crisler to be let back on the show. To your other question, that would be Dr. Nichols.