Decreasing High Hematocrit: Genistein is an agonist of hepcidin

[Tron]

Hello:

Hematocrit increase is a very known side of TRT. Some studies conclude that testosterone reduces hepcidin (an hepatic hormone) which is related with iron absorptions paths. When hepcidin is reduced erythrocytosis is increased:

Testosterone suppresses hepcidin in men: a potential mechanism for testosterone-induced erythrocytosis - PubMed

There is some hepcidin agonists. One of the is called genistein:

Hepcidin: A Promising Therapeutic Target for Iron Disorders

"Through high-throughput screening, several compounds including genistein and progesterone are identified because they show excellent efficacy in hepcidin induction.56,90"

This is another info about genistein:

Genistein - Wikipedia

"Isoflavones such as genistein and daidzein are found in a number of plants including lupin, fava beans, soybeans, kudzu, and psoralea being the primary food source,[2][3] also in the medicinal plants, Flemingia vestita[4] and F. macrophylla,[5][6] and coffee.[7] It can also be found in Maackia amurensis cell cultures.[8]"

Of course, we can buy genistein in some comercial stores because it is not too much difficult to extract form these foods.

Any ideas about genistein???

Thanks

 

[HealthMan]

Very interesting maybe worth a try

 

[HealthMan]

This product contains both

Life Extension Super-Absorbable Soy Isoflavones, 60 Vegetarian Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QIY5GG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Y64oBbKBWN3C3

 

[Tron]

This product contains both

Life Extension Super-Absorbable Soy Isoflavones, 60 Vegetarian Capsules https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QIY5GG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Y64oBbKBWN3C3

This one has much more quantity per capsule:

https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Nutrients-Genistein-Concentrated-Supplement/dp/B002YTI5RA

Genistein I have read that inhibits a little testosterone conversion to DHT via 5-alpha reductase which maybe it is not too much interesting for men.

I would be good to find an study about genistein and its direct effect on hematocrit but I haven't found any.

 

[Tron]

This is another article about genistein that mainly is a soy extract:

https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/soy-and-your-testosterone/

 

[HealthMan]

This is another article about genistein that mainly is a soy extract:

https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/soy-and-your-testosterone/

Also it is a phytoestrogen so maybe not a great idea

 

[Tron]

Also it is a phytoestrogen so maybe not a great idea

I think you are right but it is strange because estradiol tends to increase hematocrit but maybe the kind of soy phytoestrogen makes the contrary.

 

[HealthMan]

I just bought some soy protein from NOW and will add to my whey + casein mix for a nice time release formula. And soy protein has all the phytoestrogens in it. Lets see

 

[HealthMan]

“Soy-dairy protein blend increases muscle mass, study shows“

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140425093603.htm

 

[Gianluca]

I just bought some soy protein from NOW and will add to my whey + casein mix for a nice time release formula. And soy protein has all the phytoestrogens in it. Lets see

how has that been working for you?

 

[HealthMan]

how has that been working for you?

My HCT has been under control for a while now after i reduced my dosage to 100-110mg a week. I have been taking some soy protein but don’t think it has nothing to do with my HCT under control.

 

[ajax31]

Iron metabolism is so complicated it's like trying to navigate a mine field. For example, testosterone lowers hepcidin (to increase iron absorption), but it simultaneously and independently stimulates red blood cell formation (erythropoiesis). There are a number of posts on here from men who develop low ferritin (storage form of iron) and high hemoglobin / hematocrit after beginning TRT, which is what you would expect if testosterone is stimulating erythropoiesis ... and their low ferritin begins to rise back to the normal range after discontinuing TRT.

 

[Charliebizz]

Iron metabolism is so complicated it's like trying to navigate a mine field. For example, testosterone lowers hepcidin (to increase iron absorption), but it simultaneously and independently stimulates red blood cell formation (erythropoiesis). There are a number of posts on here from men who develop low ferritin (storage form of iron) and high hemoglobin / hematocrit after beginning TRT, which is what you would expect if testosterone is stimulating erythropoiesis ... and their low ferritin begins to rise back to the normal range after discontinuing TRT.

My ferritin dropped from 157 to 51 being on trt for a year. But my rbc counts are fine. I know 50 is still acceptable. But what if it continues to drop? Will it actually cause symptoms in it self having low ferritin from trt

 

[ajax31]

The answer is yes, if your ferritin drops too low (around 20) you can experience symptoms/problems even with a hemoglobin in the normal range (the absence of anemia).

 

[Charliebizz]

Will ferritin stop dropping at a point on trt ? I read a study saying after 3 months it should but mine actually got lower and lower over the coarse of a year. I'm at 51 now I hope it stops dropping.

 

[ajax31]

Will ferritin stop dropping at a point on trt ? I read a study saying after 3 months it should but mine actually got lower and lower over the coarse of a year. I'm at 51 now I hope it stops dropping.

I would just keep monitoring ferritin every 3 - 4 months if you’re concerned, and, also, eat one serving of beef liver once a week.

 

[Charliebizz]

I would just keep monitoring ferritin every 3 - 4 months if you’re concerned, and, also, eat one serving of beef liver once a week.

Thanks for your help.