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Expert Interviews
Adversity, Breakthrough and a Hero’s Battle with Death -Jay Campbell Interviews Nelson Vergel
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<blockquote data-quote="Nelson Vergel" data-source="post: 82303" data-attributes="member: 3"><p>PART 2</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Sure. Like administering euthanasia, yeah.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, how to kill yourself before things got worse. He says, “I’m going to do the final exit program protocol after we have the party, I want to have a bunch of champagne before then, I’m going to say goodbye to my friends. I’m shipping you over 100 papers that I’ve collected for my book ...” he had a secretary, “a secretary collected from the library.” Back then, that’s all ... “I’m going to ship that and you’re going to finish the book for me because you promised. I need to go real soon because people are coming to my final party so I don’t have much time to talk.”</p><p>Jay Campbell: You’re just completely in utter shock.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: He hang up and I was crying and I was like, “Oh my God ...” because I knew right there that my life would change. At that moment, besides the HIV diagnosis obviously, at that moment I knew that my life was going to shift. That’s when I got a humongous box with all these papers, back then obviously we didn’t have the internet. He had written like 30% of the book and I had to do most of the work later.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Sure.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: It was 1994 when I sold my house, decided to go out on disability with Shell and came out of my double closet. My boss was brokenhearted. He sent me home, he says, “ This thing takes the best people! Go home, we’ll take care of you. The insurance will cover you, do your life’s mission.” I told him I was writing a book. Even through all this, I’ve had angels come through my life.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: For sure.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Talking about another angel, while I was writing, I don’t know ... I tell you, that’s ’94, that’s when the internet started.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah, that’s right when internet’s a prodigy in AOL comp servers.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. That opened the complete possibilities of networking. I found out of this guy, Michael Mooney, who was obsessed also. He’s HIV negative but very obsessed with hormones and all that. He called me, he says, “I want to help you write the book.” He was God sent too. He helped me, he did a lot of the work on referencing stuff. Anyways, I decided, “Well, I’m going to preach this.” Back then we had fax machines, so I wrote fax sheets and I would start faxing ... I don’t know how I found all these fax numbers, doctors everywhere, all over the country. The protocol, I called the power program-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah, the power protocol, yeah.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, which included nandrolone decanoate (Decadurabolin) plus testosterone and proper nutrition and exercise. It became “the thing.” Doctors started talking about it and they started prescribing anabolics and people started getting better when it comes to wasting. Then I was lucky that I joined a community advisory group with the NIH (National Institute of Health). That is where I advocated for the use of funds to do studies with anabolics for HIV related wasting syndrome. I would go to Washington and we did like 12 studies. They all obviously showed that they worked, they were safe.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: How was your health now, like right now, you’re so busy, you’ve got all these people [crosstalk 00:28:20].</p><p>Nelson Vergel: No, I was healthy because I had obviously reversed my wasting, my viral load was still high. My virus was 50,000 viruses per milliliter.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: You were literally living on adrenaline, this is your life mission-</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, adrenaline, yeah. I was not tired, I was not showing obvious symptoms. The only symptoms, I had thrush and I had something called hairy leukoplakia, so every time in the morning I will wake up, look up my tongue and to see if it was white. That meant that eventually you’re going to die because that’s a sign of immune suppression... then in ’94, ’95, somebody told me, “You know, Nelson, I’m hearing that there are these Protease inhibitors coming. They may actually save us.”</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I can’t imagine that. What did you do when you heard that?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: What did I do?</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: They might save us dude!</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, “So these things, they haven’t told us but you know ...” he was telling me, He died a few weeks later. All my friends that brought information to me died. I got onto the first study of protease inhibitors, which was an overly aggressive thing for me to do because I developed resistance. It was not the best drug. I developed resistance and my virus mutated, it’s a long story. It’s called functional monotherapy. I set myself to failure and I became eventually multidrug resistant. My virus became super mutated. I lived like that with a super mutated virus for 27 years. Everybody else around me was bringing their viral load to what we call undetectable with drugs, with medications, except me. I was considered a “treatment failure” patient but I looked like a million bucks.</p><p></p><p> I was lecturing about health and everybody in the room had undetectable viral load but me because I had done overly aggressive things like joining studies where I was taking risks…it’s a long story, I really don’t want people to ... I don’t want to get bored.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, let me just ask you one question. In your deepest beliefs and theories as to why you’ve survived, what is the reason?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I survived because I don’t think I ever bought into the fact or the message that I was going to die. I survived because I dealt with my depression fast. I’m super aggressive, I’m a type A, alpha male, super ... I’m the oldest of six, I’m always curious about things that I do not know that I do not know. I think depression was killing people faster, so I tried to remain active and hopeful. Though I even got on Zoloft, testosterone obviously reversed my depression. The emotional aspect of me helping people got me completely out of my self-pity. I never had self-pity only for the first few days that I cried but I never had self-pity. I knew for some reason that I would also get on the latest treatment. I could manage by jumping from one drug to another, which was eventually creating my multidrug resistance. It was a combination of factors. I don’t know, my mom jokes it’s because I was breastfed for five years. Creepy…</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: This is a personal question but I can only imagine because we all ... you and I are very now definitely spiritually evolved and we’ll talk about that later in this. Did you ever have days where you just literally felt like you were going to die? Not mentally but just physically you were so exhausted that you were just like, “How can I do this?”</p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I remember clearly, I was in the backyard trying to work because I like gardening, that’s the only thing that was my escape. I’m not a guy that does hobbies or anything, I’m kind of boring, I work out, I eat, I write but I never have hobbies or distractions because-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: And you are building amazing relationships.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you, because I never been into self-defeating self-pity, so the only thing I had was planting plants and I remember, I was crying basically in the backyard. I didn’t know why. We are now finding out more and more that we have built that trauma in this disease and in many other diseases where many of us don’t express it because we’re saviors, we’re warriors. We’re strong because we must show the way, we must help people. I was transactional, so I never-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Right, you were transactional, right.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I stopped crying, I think I buried a lot of my friends, I never really cried. There was a point where that built up and the point that everybody else was ... I was being called a failure patient because everybody else was a success meaning their viral load was undetectable and mine wasn’t. That really got to me because I said, “Why me? I’m the one that knows everything. I’m really a know it all, I have that problem, I’ve been criticized for that, I own it. I think I’m a know it all, I try not to be such an ******* about it but I felt like, “Why me? I’ve been helping so many people.” That’s why I even started questioning the existence of God. I’m an atheist, I don’t believe in any of that magical stuff and I don’t want to get into that right now.</p><p></p><p> Yeah, fortunately for Zoloft, fortunately for testosterone, fortunately for the gym, fortunately for having a family that while I kept it from them for 12 years but they eventually found out and they were very supportive. Fortunately for my lecturing, I started lecturing weekly around the country with my own money and that really got me ... I don’t know, I don’t think it’s genetics because my immune system dropped. I’ve never could really recover, I only have basically 40% or 30% of a normal immune system. I probably will remain that until there’s a cure, which will happen within 10 to 20 years. I’ve developed a lot of coping skills. The main one is to be grateful at every moment, even when I’m tired in bed or I’m not feeling too well, I know that I have it good compared to many people, I have it good compared to my friends that are six feet under, I have it good compared to people in other countries that have no access.</p><p></p><p> I have a good insurance, I have good doctor, an amazing partner, an amazing family and amazing friends like you. I have developed the skill of knowing good people and keeping them in my life. I believe that life is too short so I really enjoy everything. I’ve read, I’ve taken mindfulness classes where they teach you to enjoy taking a shower, mindfulness, to enjoy washing your hands mindfully, to enjoy even looking at a flower. Just at that moment, just do the little things in life. If we have at least five of those moments, even if they’re one second long daily, most of us are going to do better just because we’re aware of those little things. Somebody may look at a baby, their own kids and that mindfulness is what ... I don’t want to get too spiritual because I’m actually a tough guy that doesn’t like to talk too much about that but in mindfulness…</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, I’m going to continue to make you talk about spirituality.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Because I don’t like-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Sorry tough guy.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, well that’s always that part of me, something that I don’t share so-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, one of the things ... let me just jump in quick because that’s all awesome. That was amazing that you just shared all that and thank you. The one thing that I’ve really learned from you and obviously I tell Monica this all the time, is that you are just so genuine.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I found in my life that the most successful people and again, everybody can still find success whenever the **** they want. I don’t define success from a monetary standpoint, I define success based on how many people do you help daily without thinking about it. What I mean by that is you’re one of those guys ... our story is I reached out to you, I sent you a copy of my book two years, I didn’t hear back from you because you were out of the country. I sent it to a lot of people like you and you were one of only two people that wrote me back. The other guy that wrote me back got me all concerned, we know who that is, “You need a legal review.” The reality is that just my first meeting of you and I had been exposed to you in the past because of your books and because of my writing and I had reached out to you and you had always written back to me but I was just another guy.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: You just are so genuine and I find that in life and my experience and the people that treat everyone as an equal, regardless of how big you are or how small the other person is, that’s the key to life. It’s like the CEO who talks to the janitor who’s cleaning his office like the person that he reports to from the chairman of the board standpoint. In life, it really is how you treat people. I don’t care about any of the other things and I can say very, very, very consistently that you treat everyone equally no matter what.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you. I appreciate kindness and generosity, and when I detect that in somebody, I basically want to mentor them. That’s what I detected in you-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Thank you.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I detected it in Jason from Defy and Shaun from Empower. There are people like you guys, are working in health and helping other people because you are just generous, you want to help people. You genuinely and the word genuine also applies to you. It’s rare, I only meet this type of people maybe one out of a hundred. For me, I’m hyper aware when I come across one of those people. I basically want to develop a relationship with you. I even told you, “You better write that book,” even though your book was also about ... after my book. I knew that I was eventually going to lose sales to you but I didn’t care because my book came much before and you were giving another perspective, a much fresher perspective. I said, “You need to publish that book.” Don’t listen to people telling you need legal advise.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Thank you, Nelson for that. I’ve told millions of people, everyone who knows me closely, you are my mentor. I can say that on this podcast and you are truly and amazing man. When Monica and I met you in person a year ago, honestly, we both drove home and we were like, “That guy is literally the living embodiment of who I want to be as a man moving forward and continuing my mission.” The one thing I’ve learned and we can jump into the spiritual stuff but I do want you to talk about ExcelMale and I do want you to talk about your book. We’ll get to that in a second but the one thing that I’m learning in life is that too many people focus on, “What is my purpose? I’m lost because I don’t know what my purpose is.”</p><p></p><p> In my opinion, and again, we’ll talk about Eckhart Tolle in a minute. The reality is, is that our purpose continually changes. A focus of like you only have one purpose in your life is really going to lead you astray and so the one thing that I now know in meeting you are that to be a spiritually highly evolved, conscious loving present person, you must just roll with the punches. Every single day is going to be different than yesterday and tomorrow is going to be different than yesterday. If you focus on those things and again, I don’t want to just give Tolle all the credit but the reality is you just must roll with the punches and be present, right?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yes, and see that things just happen because they just happen. It is what it is, there have no meaning, there’s no meaning…it’s the meaning we give them. Life is not trying to teach you a lesson or people are not trying to be evil to you. It’s a lot about perception and yes, there are evil and we’ve seen evil. Just this weekend, we saw evil that killed 49 people in a gay bar in Orlando, but in general, most people are good, most people are preoccupied about their own needs because most are busy. Most people are genuinely good people, especially if you bring that out of them by being genuine. Now, something else that motivates me, so I get up in the morning and I get online and I get emails thanking me or ... it’s a great feeling to know that even in your worst, in my shittiest days, somebody has benefited from my writings. Man, when I read those ... my day is completely lifted. It’s about getting out of your head. Every time I give, I get a lot more back and you have more back.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It’s so true Nelson. I really wish ... we’re all on our own revolution, we’re all on our own life journey and our process, hopefully we evolve as we go but it’s so true about that. The more and more I read, I’m so into spiritual enlightenment now. By the way, I’m reading ... I told you about this, this life and teaching of the masters.</p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, I need to read that one.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Absolutely mesmerizing stuff. Beyond the spiritual enlightenment, the reality is once you align yourself with being generous, paying it forward, always ... just like you said, just always being of a mindset to help other people, it’s amazing what comes in your life. When you’re closed off and like you were saying, you had a good point, you said, when you’re living for your needs, your personal needs. You’re not aligning the generosity of the universe, the abundance of the universe to truly flow into you and flow out. When you are aligned and not worried about yourself all the time, it’s so true what you said. I really wish that I would have figure that out a long time ago but again, it’s like Monica, she’s my spirit animal, right?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: That is right.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: The reality is that it comes when it comes. Some people, it comes to them as Tolle says, when they’re on their death bed, five minutes away from death. Others, it comes like you, it came at 23 when somebody said to you, “Hey man, you’ve got six months, you’re going done.” All of this, it comes in different points in our lives and it really does come based on natural experiences but it’s really, it’s recognizing when it comes and then what you do with it after it comes.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, and not act out of fear. Anything out of fear, it doesn’t lead to anything. The good this about this work and let me tell you ... okay, what have been the benefits to me of doing this? Let’s now talk about what people are giving me. Through my non-profit, I’ve met other people that run non-profits. Amazing, these are all angels, these are people that selfishly just giving their souls to people. Through my books, the first and the second, it’s, Built to Survive and Testosterone. I met you, I my best friends right now, all of you guys, which ... something else. I never thought I was going to be good friends with straight men.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: That’s right, so many straight men.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: My best three, four friends now are straight men that I met through my work and I’m just enjoying the ... it’s a very unexpected thing. 10 years ago, I would have told you you’re crazy because what happens with HIV and in the gay world is that we isolate ourselves in a bubble because we don’t want to be discriminated against. We tend to protect ourselves and sometimes ... the world is changing and I’m one of those optimists, I’m a futurist. My life has improved dramatically in the past three years, not only my health because I did eventually achieve undetectable viral load. I’m getting-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: That’s awesome, congratulations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nelson Vergel, post: 82303, member: 3"] PART 2 Jay Campbell: Sure. Like administering euthanasia, yeah. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, how to kill yourself before things got worse. He says, “I’m going to do the final exit program protocol after we have the party, I want to have a bunch of champagne before then, I’m going to say goodbye to my friends. I’m shipping you over 100 papers that I’ve collected for my book ...” he had a secretary, “a secretary collected from the library.” Back then, that’s all ... “I’m going to ship that and you’re going to finish the book for me because you promised. I need to go real soon because people are coming to my final party so I don’t have much time to talk.” Jay Campbell: You’re just completely in utter shock. Nelson Vergel: He hang up and I was crying and I was like, “Oh my God ...” because I knew right there that my life would change. At that moment, besides the HIV diagnosis obviously, at that moment I knew that my life was going to shift. That’s when I got a humongous box with all these papers, back then obviously we didn’t have the internet. He had written like 30% of the book and I had to do most of the work later. Jay Campbell: Sure. Nelson Vergel: It was 1994 when I sold my house, decided to go out on disability with Shell and came out of my double closet. My boss was brokenhearted. He sent me home, he says, “ This thing takes the best people! Go home, we’ll take care of you. The insurance will cover you, do your life’s mission.” I told him I was writing a book. Even through all this, I’ve had angels come through my life. Jay Campbell: For sure. Nelson Vergel: Talking about another angel, while I was writing, I don’t know ... I tell you, that’s ’94, that’s when the internet started. Jay Campbell: Yeah, that’s right when internet’s a prodigy in AOL comp servers. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. That opened the complete possibilities of networking. I found out of this guy, Michael Mooney, who was obsessed also. He’s HIV negative but very obsessed with hormones and all that. He called me, he says, “I want to help you write the book.” He was God sent too. He helped me, he did a lot of the work on referencing stuff. Anyways, I decided, “Well, I’m going to preach this.” Back then we had fax machines, so I wrote fax sheets and I would start faxing ... I don’t know how I found all these fax numbers, doctors everywhere, all over the country. The protocol, I called the power program- Jay Campbell: Yeah, the power protocol, yeah. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, which included nandrolone decanoate (Decadurabolin) plus testosterone and proper nutrition and exercise. It became “the thing.” Doctors started talking about it and they started prescribing anabolics and people started getting better when it comes to wasting. Then I was lucky that I joined a community advisory group with the NIH (National Institute of Health). That is where I advocated for the use of funds to do studies with anabolics for HIV related wasting syndrome. I would go to Washington and we did like 12 studies. They all obviously showed that they worked, they were safe. Jay Campbell: How was your health now, like right now, you’re so busy, you’ve got all these people [crosstalk 00:28:20]. Nelson Vergel: No, I was healthy because I had obviously reversed my wasting, my viral load was still high. My virus was 50,000 viruses per milliliter. Jay Campbell: You were literally living on adrenaline, this is your life mission- Nelson Vergel: Yeah, adrenaline, yeah. I was not tired, I was not showing obvious symptoms. The only symptoms, I had thrush and I had something called hairy leukoplakia, so every time in the morning I will wake up, look up my tongue and to see if it was white. That meant that eventually you’re going to die because that’s a sign of immune suppression... then in ’94, ’95, somebody told me, “You know, Nelson, I’m hearing that there are these Protease inhibitors coming. They may actually save us.” Jay Campbell: I can’t imagine that. What did you do when you heard that? Nelson Vergel: What did I do? Jay Campbell: They might save us dude! Nelson Vergel: Yeah, “So these things, they haven’t told us but you know ...” he was telling me, He died a few weeks later. All my friends that brought information to me died. I got onto the first study of protease inhibitors, which was an overly aggressive thing for me to do because I developed resistance. It was not the best drug. I developed resistance and my virus mutated, it’s a long story. It’s called functional monotherapy. I set myself to failure and I became eventually multidrug resistant. My virus became super mutated. I lived like that with a super mutated virus for 27 years. Everybody else around me was bringing their viral load to what we call undetectable with drugs, with medications, except me. I was considered a “treatment failure” patient but I looked like a million bucks. I was lecturing about health and everybody in the room had undetectable viral load but me because I had done overly aggressive things like joining studies where I was taking risks…it’s a long story, I really don’t want people to ... I don’t want to get bored. Jay Campbell: Well, let me just ask you one question. In your deepest beliefs and theories as to why you’ve survived, what is the reason? Nelson Vergel: I survived because I don’t think I ever bought into the fact or the message that I was going to die. I survived because I dealt with my depression fast. I’m super aggressive, I’m a type A, alpha male, super ... I’m the oldest of six, I’m always curious about things that I do not know that I do not know. I think depression was killing people faster, so I tried to remain active and hopeful. Though I even got on Zoloft, testosterone obviously reversed my depression. The emotional aspect of me helping people got me completely out of my self-pity. I never had self-pity only for the first few days that I cried but I never had self-pity. I knew for some reason that I would also get on the latest treatment. I could manage by jumping from one drug to another, which was eventually creating my multidrug resistance. It was a combination of factors. I don’t know, my mom jokes it’s because I was breastfed for five years. Creepy… Jay Campbell: This is a personal question but I can only imagine because we all ... you and I are very now definitely spiritually evolved and we’ll talk about that later in this. Did you ever have days where you just literally felt like you were going to die? Not mentally but just physically you were so exhausted that you were just like, “How can I do this?” Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I remember clearly, I was in the backyard trying to work because I like gardening, that’s the only thing that was my escape. I’m not a guy that does hobbies or anything, I’m kind of boring, I work out, I eat, I write but I never have hobbies or distractions because- Jay Campbell: And you are building amazing relationships. Nelson Vergel: Thank you, because I never been into self-defeating self-pity, so the only thing I had was planting plants and I remember, I was crying basically in the backyard. I didn’t know why. We are now finding out more and more that we have built that trauma in this disease and in many other diseases where many of us don’t express it because we’re saviors, we’re warriors. We’re strong because we must show the way, we must help people. I was transactional, so I never- Jay Campbell: Right, you were transactional, right. Nelson Vergel: I stopped crying, I think I buried a lot of my friends, I never really cried. There was a point where that built up and the point that everybody else was ... I was being called a failure patient because everybody else was a success meaning their viral load was undetectable and mine wasn’t. That really got to me because I said, “Why me? I’m the one that knows everything. I’m really a know it all, I have that problem, I’ve been criticized for that, I own it. I think I’m a know it all, I try not to be such an ******* about it but I felt like, “Why me? I’ve been helping so many people.” That’s why I even started questioning the existence of God. I’m an atheist, I don’t believe in any of that magical stuff and I don’t want to get into that right now. Yeah, fortunately for Zoloft, fortunately for testosterone, fortunately for the gym, fortunately for having a family that while I kept it from them for 12 years but they eventually found out and they were very supportive. Fortunately for my lecturing, I started lecturing weekly around the country with my own money and that really got me ... I don’t know, I don’t think it’s genetics because my immune system dropped. I’ve never could really recover, I only have basically 40% or 30% of a normal immune system. I probably will remain that until there’s a cure, which will happen within 10 to 20 years. I’ve developed a lot of coping skills. The main one is to be grateful at every moment, even when I’m tired in bed or I’m not feeling too well, I know that I have it good compared to many people, I have it good compared to my friends that are six feet under, I have it good compared to people in other countries that have no access. I have a good insurance, I have good doctor, an amazing partner, an amazing family and amazing friends like you. I have developed the skill of knowing good people and keeping them in my life. I believe that life is too short so I really enjoy everything. I’ve read, I’ve taken mindfulness classes where they teach you to enjoy taking a shower, mindfulness, to enjoy washing your hands mindfully, to enjoy even looking at a flower. Just at that moment, just do the little things in life. If we have at least five of those moments, even if they’re one second long daily, most of us are going to do better just because we’re aware of those little things. Somebody may look at a baby, their own kids and that mindfulness is what ... I don’t want to get too spiritual because I’m actually a tough guy that doesn’t like to talk too much about that but in mindfulness… Jay Campbell: Well, I’m going to continue to make you talk about spirituality. Nelson Vergel: Because I don’t like- Jay Campbell: Sorry tough guy. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, well that’s always that part of me, something that I don’t share so- Jay Campbell: Well, one of the things ... let me just jump in quick because that’s all awesome. That was amazing that you just shared all that and thank you. The one thing that I’ve really learned from you and obviously I tell Monica this all the time, is that you are just so genuine. Nelson Vergel: Thank you. Jay Campbell: I found in my life that the most successful people and again, everybody can still find success whenever the **** they want. I don’t define success from a monetary standpoint, I define success based on how many people do you help daily without thinking about it. What I mean by that is you’re one of those guys ... our story is I reached out to you, I sent you a copy of my book two years, I didn’t hear back from you because you were out of the country. I sent it to a lot of people like you and you were one of only two people that wrote me back. The other guy that wrote me back got me all concerned, we know who that is, “You need a legal review.” The reality is that just my first meeting of you and I had been exposed to you in the past because of your books and because of my writing and I had reached out to you and you had always written back to me but I was just another guy. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Jay Campbell: You just are so genuine and I find that in life and my experience and the people that treat everyone as an equal, regardless of how big you are or how small the other person is, that’s the key to life. It’s like the CEO who talks to the janitor who’s cleaning his office like the person that he reports to from the chairman of the board standpoint. In life, it really is how you treat people. I don’t care about any of the other things and I can say very, very, very consistently that you treat everyone equally no matter what. Nelson Vergel: Thank you. I appreciate kindness and generosity, and when I detect that in somebody, I basically want to mentor them. That’s what I detected in you- Jay Campbell: Thank you. Nelson Vergel: I detected it in Jason from Defy and Shaun from Empower. There are people like you guys, are working in health and helping other people because you are just generous, you want to help people. You genuinely and the word genuine also applies to you. It’s rare, I only meet this type of people maybe one out of a hundred. For me, I’m hyper aware when I come across one of those people. I basically want to develop a relationship with you. I even told you, “You better write that book,” even though your book was also about ... after my book. I knew that I was eventually going to lose sales to you but I didn’t care because my book came much before and you were giving another perspective, a much fresher perspective. I said, “You need to publish that book.” Don’t listen to people telling you need legal advise. Jay Campbell: Thank you, Nelson for that. I’ve told millions of people, everyone who knows me closely, you are my mentor. I can say that on this podcast and you are truly and amazing man. When Monica and I met you in person a year ago, honestly, we both drove home and we were like, “That guy is literally the living embodiment of who I want to be as a man moving forward and continuing my mission.” The one thing I’ve learned and we can jump into the spiritual stuff but I do want you to talk about ExcelMale and I do want you to talk about your book. We’ll get to that in a second but the one thing that I’m learning in life is that too many people focus on, “What is my purpose? I’m lost because I don’t know what my purpose is.” In my opinion, and again, we’ll talk about Eckhart Tolle in a minute. The reality is, is that our purpose continually changes. A focus of like you only have one purpose in your life is really going to lead you astray and so the one thing that I now know in meeting you are that to be a spiritually highly evolved, conscious loving present person, you must just roll with the punches. Every single day is going to be different than yesterday and tomorrow is going to be different than yesterday. If you focus on those things and again, I don’t want to just give Tolle all the credit but the reality is you just must roll with the punches and be present, right? Nelson Vergel: Yes, and see that things just happen because they just happen. It is what it is, there have no meaning, there’s no meaning…it’s the meaning we give them. Life is not trying to teach you a lesson or people are not trying to be evil to you. It’s a lot about perception and yes, there are evil and we’ve seen evil. Just this weekend, we saw evil that killed 49 people in a gay bar in Orlando, but in general, most people are good, most people are preoccupied about their own needs because most are busy. Most people are genuinely good people, especially if you bring that out of them by being genuine. Now, something else that motivates me, so I get up in the morning and I get online and I get emails thanking me or ... it’s a great feeling to know that even in your worst, in my shittiest days, somebody has benefited from my writings. Man, when I read those ... my day is completely lifted. It’s about getting out of your head. Every time I give, I get a lot more back and you have more back. Jay Campbell: It’s so true Nelson. I really wish ... we’re all on our own revolution, we’re all on our own life journey and our process, hopefully we evolve as we go but it’s so true about that. The more and more I read, I’m so into spiritual enlightenment now. By the way, I’m reading ... I told you about this, this life and teaching of the masters. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, I need to read that one. Jay Campbell: Absolutely mesmerizing stuff. Beyond the spiritual enlightenment, the reality is once you align yourself with being generous, paying it forward, always ... just like you said, just always being of a mindset to help other people, it’s amazing what comes in your life. When you’re closed off and like you were saying, you had a good point, you said, when you’re living for your needs, your personal needs. You’re not aligning the generosity of the universe, the abundance of the universe to truly flow into you and flow out. When you are aligned and not worried about yourself all the time, it’s so true what you said. I really wish that I would have figure that out a long time ago but again, it’s like Monica, she’s my spirit animal, right? Nelson Vergel: That is right. Jay Campbell: The reality is that it comes when it comes. Some people, it comes to them as Tolle says, when they’re on their death bed, five minutes away from death. Others, it comes like you, it came at 23 when somebody said to you, “Hey man, you’ve got six months, you’re going done.” All of this, it comes in different points in our lives and it really does come based on natural experiences but it’s really, it’s recognizing when it comes and then what you do with it after it comes. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, and not act out of fear. Anything out of fear, it doesn’t lead to anything. The good this about this work and let me tell you ... okay, what have been the benefits to me of doing this? Let’s now talk about what people are giving me. Through my non-profit, I’ve met other people that run non-profits. Amazing, these are all angels, these are people that selfishly just giving their souls to people. Through my books, the first and the second, it’s, Built to Survive and Testosterone. I met you, I my best friends right now, all of you guys, which ... something else. I never thought I was going to be good friends with straight men. Jay Campbell: That’s right, so many straight men. Nelson Vergel: My best three, four friends now are straight men that I met through my work and I’m just enjoying the ... it’s a very unexpected thing. 10 years ago, I would have told you you’re crazy because what happens with HIV and in the gay world is that we isolate ourselves in a bubble because we don’t want to be discriminated against. We tend to protect ourselves and sometimes ... the world is changing and I’m one of those optimists, I’m a futurist. My life has improved dramatically in the past three years, not only my health because I did eventually achieve undetectable viral load. I’m getting- Jay Campbell: That’s awesome, congratulations. [/QUOTE]
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Adversity, Breakthrough and a Hero’s Battle with Death -Jay Campbell Interviews Nelson Vergel
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