need some help with Hemocrit

I'm on HCG mono therapy and have been dealing with high hemocrit. Before starting therapy my heme was 45%. My total T has come up quite a bit but so has my total T. It was 50.6 so I cut my dose down a bit. Was taking 500IU EOD but dropped it down to 300IU EOD for 4 weeks and now my heme is 51.7%! My RBC 5.67 and hemoglobin is 17.0.

I was hoping by dropping my HCG dose quite a bit my heme levels would have dropped not increased. I'm looking for suggestions to why it increased. Only changes I've made are drinking beet juice (which does stimulate RBC production), take fish oil, vitamin D.

Is my current heme unsafe? I see that Nelson recommends not to do anything until it hits 53 or 52, I forget which.
Thanks

Do you donate blood? I donate at the Red Cross every 56 days (I believe that is as often as one can donate) problem solved and you are helping people at the same time.

I dont, embarrassed to say I have a phobia go giving blood let alone a long process like donating. What is your hemocrit numbers?

I think i recall seeing that it can take a month or two to see a reduction in H&H from any changes since it takes that long to clear out the cells. Mine elevated while on HCG mono as well. Makes me think maybe I had low T for a reason haha. Maybe my body knew better. anyway, donate seems like the only option and I am with you - I am full on panic mode and it takes me days to recover from the stress of it. I'm trying the experiment of eating a half a grapefruit everyday to see if that works.

GettingAnswers said:

I think i recall seeing that it can take a month or two to see a reduction in H&H from any changes since it takes that long to clear out the cells. Mine elevated while on HCG mono as well. Makes me think maybe I had low T for a reason haha. Maybe my body knew better. anyway, donate seems like the only option and I am with you - I am full on panic mode and it takes me days to recover from the stress of it. I'm trying the experiment of eating a half a grapefruit everyday to see if that works.

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Yea man, I'm definitely in the same boat! All these blood test set me off into panic/anxiety mode. If its not anticipating the results of high this or that its something else. Good call on your body knowing better, never know!
Are you still on HCG mono?
Please let me know how the grapefruit works out. I read about that but am concerned it'll interfere with some other stuff I take.

Hcg can cause hematocrit elevations just as TRT does. Only solution is donating blood. In many men, the problem goes away when the body gets used to TRT or HCG and modifies the size of red blood cells.

Agree with all the above. You just need to get in and donate. Your numbers (at the moment) are not alarming, and you don't need to panic. However, to continue on with HRT, you will need to face this fear head-on and make the blood bank your friend. Trust me, I wasn't too hip the first time I had to do it. Hint, load yourself with a TON of water leading up to it, and you will probably be done in 10 minutes.

Vettester Chris said:

Agree with all the above. You just need to get in and donate. Your numbers (at the moment) are not alarming, and you don't need to panic. However, to continue on with HRT, you will need to face this fear head-on and make the blood bank your friend. Trust me, I wasn't too hip the first time I had to do it. Hint, load yourself with a TON of water leading up to it, and you will probably be done in 10 minutes.

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Thanks Chris for the reassurance, I was starting to panic. So I just go to the local red cross and say I want to donate blood and go from there?

Also, I've been considering stopping the HCG mono therapy for 2 months. What would happen? Is it safe to just stop cold turkey? I'm assuming I'd be back to where I was originally? Then I thought my e2 and heme would return back to my normal baselines and I could start the lower dose of HCG mono again. I feel like my body is responding still to the large doses of HCG I WAS taking.

NeedRelief said:

Thanks Chris for the reassurance, I was starting to panic. So I just go to the local red cross and say I want to donate blood and go from there?

Also, I've been considering stopping the HCG mono therapy for 2 months. What would happen? Is it safe to just stop cold turkey? I'm assuming I'd be back to where I was originally? Then I thought my e2 and heme would return back to my normal baselines and I could start the lower dose of HCG mono again. I feel like my body is responding still to the large doses of HCG I WAS taking.

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Your LH is no doubt completely suppressed from the HCG, so if you quit cold turkey, your testosterone serum will be in the tank. If that's what you and your doctor want to do, then good luck, but it won't be fun and it really doesn't make sense to do. Testosterone is needed, it shouldn't be denied, just managed ...

On the donating, YES, that's pretty much it .. Just go in, answer their questions, they will test your HCT right there on the spot, check your blood pressure, get you laid-up, squeezing the ball, needle in and on your way.

When you say in the tank, what does that mean exactly? I understand it needs to be managed not stopped but now I'm curious if I ever had to stop for some reason, what would happen.

NeedRelief said:

When you say in the tank, what does that mean exactly? I understand it needs to be managed not stopped but now I'm curious if I ever had to stop for some reason, what would happen.

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It means nada, bottom of the barrel, lower than low!! If you're not adding an exogenous source of testosterone, your HPTA is fully shut down, there isn't any LH to signal the testes to produce more endogenous test. Run your LH & FSH serum and you will see what I mean. You got on TRT because your testosterone was low, right? Well, going with an HCG mono protocol (or really any protocol) will just "tank" your LH level completely, so without your script, your testosterone serum is going to be down in the dark side, tanked, not good!!

Would my LH levels come back eventually after discontinuing the HCG, at least to where they were before starting HCG therapy 8 months ago?

For donating, yes go to the nearest Red Cross and ask to donate. The process takes very little time - maybe 10 minutes and normally the phlebotomists there are very well practiced so you hardly even notice the initial poke. If it bothers you, though, look away when they are getting ready to insert the needle. I have done it for years and its not a big deal, and now the Red Cross even comes to where I work every 56 days so it is even easier for me.

ERO said:

For donating, yes go to the nearest Red Cross and ask to donate. The process takes very little time - maybe 10 minutes and normally the phlebotomists there are very well practiced so you hardly even notice the initial poke. If it bothers you, though, look away when they are getting ready to insert the needle. I have done it for years and its not a big deal, and now the Red Cross even comes to where I work every 56 days so it is even easier for me.

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Good to know! From what I was reading online a lot of people were saying the actual process takes at least 45 minutes for a fast donation and that's for having the needle in your arm draining you! I could handle 10 minutes a lot easier than 45+.

NeedRelief said:

Would my LH levels come back eventually after discontinuing the HCG, at least to where they were before starting HCG therapy 8 months ago?

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Curious, what was your LH value 8 months ago? .. And, what was your total test serum?

Vettester Chris said:

Curious, what was your LH value 8 months ago? .. And, what was your total test serum?

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On 4/21/14 (before any treatment) my LH was 4.2, FSH was 4.2 & my Total Test was 264

On 5/27/14 (before any treatment) my LH was 2.3, FSH 3.7 & my Total Test was 275

I am not sure why the drop in my LH on 5/27 as nothing was changed.

NeedRelief said:

On 4/21/14 (before any treatment) my LH was 4.2, FSH was 4.2 & my Total Test was 264

On 5/27/14 (before any treatment) my LH was 2.3, FSH 3.7 & my Total Test was 275

I am not sure why the drop in my LH on 5/27 as nothing was changed.

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OK, by observation you looked to be "secondary hypo". As far as the drop and deviation, not sure, hopefully your physician was on top of everything with MRI's (if needed), and ruling out medications, alcohol, etc., other elements that could contribute to suppression. Even disorders with the thyroid can be a factor, but that's another discussion for another day ..

To answer you, and keep in mind this is only my opinion and my speculation ... 8 months on HCG, I wouldn't put a lot of faith into getting your HPTA producing (and sustaining) any real amount of LH. Even if you did, it wasn't at a level that would be satisfactory going forward. Plus, to even attempt it, you would be looking at implementing a SERM, like Clomid, and probably more HCG, which is basically a restart protocol. That would be the only hope to fire it back up, but at this stage I think the ship has sailed!

So, to conclude, you were put on TRT for a reason, and it should never be considered an On/Off thing, unless there's some other medical reason or emergency. Like I said, you will find your current LH to be probably in the < 0.2 category. I would personally take care of the RBC's and HCT at the blood bank, and keep my HRT protocol up to speed. That's just my .02

Thank you Chris for your opinion, very helpful. Man, I wish my doctor explained to me better that once I start this it's a for life thing. That is exactly why I didn't want to start testosterone injections/gel because I read it was for life and was given the impression HCG was easier to stop. Honestly, even though my total T was low (257) I didn't feel terrible. Better than always worrying about my estradiol too high, my HCT high..this and that.

I also hope my semi-famous Dr did all that was needed prior to treatment. He didn't do any MRI's and I am secondary. I have copies of all the bloodwork I've done. Not sure what they test to determine if there is a thyroid isssue. I'm not a big drinker and live a healthy lifestyle.

I'm starting to think maybe I need to talk to another doctor. Finding one will be another huge challenge though.

For what its worth, I just stumbled upon info stating that apparently Vitamin D increases RBC. I've been taking a decent amount of that too which I will stop altogether now.

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/anemia/