gel vs injections ( pros / cons ) feelings and experiences wanted , over shots :(

Hi all,

Been on trt for 2 yrs now, managed estrogen naturally after initially looking like a cane toad I learned more shots means better stability and less spikes. Last 3 months Ive gone to daily injections as Im a low shbg person...shbg only went from 17 to 20 so nothing exciting but estrogen dropped from 150 which is the high end to 130 ( AUS scale ). Im really over the shots though and thinking of switching to gel as some have said its way less prone to bloating and well I wont be my own pin cushion any more but i know less frequent shots like 3 will spike my estrogen again and make me look shit and put my body out of whack. Has anyone on here switched from shots to gel? down side is cost !

Im really over the daily shots and i know its the best way for my body to go and look etc has anyone switched from shots to gel?

Thx for the imput !

I can understand that daily injections maybe too much, have you tried twice a week injections. I think gels are a turn off, you still have to do it daily. It's a lot more time consuming and costly then injections.

I am one of the few around here that use a compounded TD cream.
200mg/ml and I use a 1/2 mil daily.
Cost is about $35USD per month.
At one point I was on commercial gels and besides the hoops my DRs had to go through with my insurance, the co-pay was WAY more than self-pay for my compounded TD cream.
Ck with some compounding pharmacies and see if they compound Test in a transdermal cream and what the cost is.
1/2 ml is about a 1/4 teaspood full....

Orrin, is your picture actually showing 1/2 ml (2 clicks) or 1/4 ml (1 click)? Do you apply 1/2 ml (2 clicks) all at once in the morning, or 1/4 ml (1 click) in the morning and 1/4 ml in the evening? How do you ensure the best possible absorption (application locations/preparation of locations before applying)? Thanks.

That is 2 clicks
I apply in the morning after I shower.
I apply it under one arm (tricep) near the arm pit.
I try to change arms each day.
The TD cream goes right in and leaves NO white powdery residue.
Absorbs very fast.
My T levels at trough are great (500 - 700 average).
If you are in the USA, I get my script filled at EmpoweRX.
Good Stuff

Thanks, Orrin. How many hours after application do you wait before getting blood tests? I have been trying Empower transdermal and getting blood testing 2 hours after application. First time around Total T was 300 range, so not good. Now experimenting to improve absorption.

txmx said:

Thanks, Orrin. How many hours after application do you wait before getting blood tests? I have been trying Empower transdermal and getting blood testing 2 hours after application. First time around Total T was 300 range, so not good. Now experimenting to improve absorption.

Click to expand...

I test in the AM BEFOR I apply any TD cream.
I do the blood work and have the applicator with me, and later I apply the TD cream.
What dose are you applying?
And where?

I started off on 2 weekly at 50mgs Mons and Thurs....I was bloated like a puffer fish and had estrogen issues and I have shbg of 17 so wanted to try the dailies but im over it now ....i will probably go to 3 x a week or eod injections but will probably see a spike is E as Im taking 15mg test daily now 7x a wk giving me a total of 100 - 105mgs a week. I will need to titrate slowly upto 35mgs EOD but I fear if i do this in one go my anxiety will go nuts and my estrogen will jump as will my psa .....I have all my numbers in a nice place so its a pitty im so over daily shots

nice, good idea, yeah andro gel would cost me 200 bucks a month ! test costs $30 for 6 wks !

Orrin Israel said:

I test in the AM BEFOR I apply any TD cream.
I do the blood work and have the applicator with me, and later I apply the TD cream.
What dose are you applying?
And where?

Click to expand...

My dose is 3/4 ml (3 clicks). I do 1/2 ml (2 clicks) AM, 1/4 ml (1 click) PM. (20% Empower concentration).
I have been applying to both shaved underarms at the same time (not just one underarm like you do).
My alternating site the next day is on my forearms, using both forearms at the same time. So my TD is spread out over twice the skin area as you do.
For preparation, I have been warming the areas with hot water, then using Neutrogena Deep Cleaning Facial Cleanser to exfoliate and supposedly help break down the skin barrier, then more hot water over the area to try and hydrate the skin as much as possible. THEN I apply the TD.
I just did blood testing (2 hours after TD application) a couple of days ago to prep for my next Defy consult. My understanding is that is how you do blood testing with a TD, versus trough testing like you do, which I thought was protocol for injections.
The prior blood test 6 weeks ago where my result was Total T of 300 was done after application to shoulder area with no particular prep, using alternate sites of inner thighs and forearms and not using underarms. It will be interesting to see if Total T has gone up with my new way of doing things. I should have results in 10 days or so.
Your Total T results at trough are really good for TD.
Any suggestions are appreciated.

Orrin what would 200mg/ml cream equate to as a % ? the creams and gels come in 1, 2, 5 % ..compounded Im looking at getting a 10% cream however...no idea how to doe this? I used 100mg test e a wk in split doses ...gets me 26 test score , our range here is 8-30 so its a great naturally high score ( probably 700 /800 on the USA scale )

tank77 said:

Orrin what would 200mg/ml cream equate to as a % ? the creams and gels come in 1, 2, 5 % ..compounded Im looking at getting a 10% cream however...no idea how to doe this? I used 100mg test e a wk in split doses ...gets me 26 test score , our range here is 8-30 so its a great naturally high score ( probably 700 /800 on the USA scale )

Click to expand...

I THINK 200mg/ml = 20%
I think we have some folks on here that will correct me if I am wrong....
FOLKS.... Speak up if I got it wrong.....

Correct. 200mg/ml is 20%. Orrin, any input on my comments from yesterday? Thanks.

I would like to check into the cream option and see if it works before resorting to injections. But with creams/gels you still have to inject HCG, usually twice per week, correct? I know one guy on TRT who was prescribed HCG tablets that he puts under his tongue, but I've read in other places that tablets are an ineffective way of administering HCG. So much information and conflicting opinions out there...

Orrin Israel said:

I am one of the few around here that use a compounded TD cream.
200mg/ml and I use a 1/2 mil daily.
Cost is about $35USD per month.
At one point I was on commercial gels and besides the hoops my DRs had to go through with my insurance, the co-pay was WAY more than self-pay for my compounded TD cream.
Ck with some compounding pharmacies and see if they compound Test in a transdermal cream and what the cost is.
1/2 ml is about a 1/4 teaspood full....

Click to expand...

tank77,

What is it that you dislike so much about the injections? Have you tried injecting SubQ?

I switched from transdermal cream to injections. Still prefer injections.

There are a lot of things I prefer about the injections:

- Can get wet/shower/swim/sweaty any time I want to
- No risk of transference
- No residue to deal with (unlike Orrin, my cream did leave a residue - I would have to go back and rub it back in with moisturizer after 20-30 minutes and be mindful not to rub it against things before I had done that - quite time consuming)
- I felt like I needed to walk around the house with my shirt off until it had been completely dried and absorbed (again, time consuming and annoying)
- After almost a year of trying to get dialed in, I'm discovering that I may be one of those guys that feels better with higher levels. Not all guys do. But for guys like me, I'm not sure it would be reasonable to get my levels where I like them with transdermals.

Things I preferred about cream:

- No risk of infection or other issues that come with puncturing skin (I've never had an issue, but it's sometimes in the back of my mind).
- Felt "more natural"...which I admit is basically b.s., but it just seems odd to have to inject myself with anything frequently.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I had a question concerning Lab follow up on gels/cream Vs injection.

Are they the same time span from first use and basically the same lab details? Not sure,is first lab required after 3 or 6 months?

DragonBits said:

I had a question concerning Lab follow up on gels/cream Vs injection.

Are they the same time span from first use and basically the same lab details? Not sure,is first lab required after 3 or 6 months?

Click to expand...

@ Dragonbits
cant quote for injections as I have not been on them as of yet;

with Gel, on initial starting I had various bloods taken prior to starting,
once started had bloods taken Every Month for first 3 months to ensure correct dosage and then regular every 3 months for first year.
If 3 monthly bloods have consistent results this is moved from 3 monthly to 6 monthly testing

FOX1 said:

@ Dragonbits
cant quote for injections as I have not been on them as of yet;

with Gel, on initial starting I had various bloods taken prior to starting,
once started had bloods taken Every Month for first 3 months to ensure correct dosage and then regular every 3 months for first year.
If 3 monthly bloods have consistent results this is moved from 3 monthly to 6 monthly testing

Click to expand...

Thanks, I think with Defy and injections of testos, the first follow up lab is in either 3 or 6 months, but maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can comment.

Hmmmm
I missed your question.
Sorry....
Did the follow-on responses answer your question?