First "cycle" test results

Thread starter #1
Hi, you can get some background for my first 10 weeks of TRT here:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?15466-New-here

Just received 10 week test results and the following were out of reference range:

Urea nitrogen - 27 mg/dl
BUN/creatinine ratio - 28.7
Testosterone, free - 308.5 pg/ml
Testosterone, total - 1336 ng/dl

Tests included CBC, Comprehensive met. panel, etc. Estradiol is in reference range with a value of 38 pg/ml. Talked with Docs office and they are now questioning my initial results which had me <300 for total T and <3 free T. I had questioned these results earlier as well because they were so far below a test I had a couple years ago. If you read my intro at the link above, you will understand my surprise at these values as I really have not had any great physical response to the therapy....no real increase in energy, muscle mass etc. Don't get me wrong, libido is up and I'm no slouch in the weight room, but at those levels seems like I ought to feel like superman! In my somewhat limited research I have not seen free T values this high. Something to worry about? I meet Doc next week.
 
#2
Hi, you can get some background for my first 10 weeks of TRT here:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?15466-New-here

Just received 10 week test results and the following were out of reference range:

Urea nitrogen - 27 mg/dl
BUN/creatinine ratio - 28.7
Testosterone, free - 308.5 pg/ml
Testosterone, total - 1336 ng/dl

Tests included CBC, Comprehensive met. panel, etc. Estradiol is in reference range with a value of 38 pg/ml. Talked with Docs office and they are now questioning my initial results which had me <300 for total T and <3 free T. I had questioned these results earlier as well because they were so far below a test I had a couple years ago. If you read my intro at the link above, you will understand my surprise at these values as I really have not had any great physical response to the therapy....no real increase in energy, muscle mass etc. Don't get me wrong, libido is up and I'm no slouch in the weight room, but at those levels seems like I ought to feel like superman! In my somewhat limited research I have not seen free T values this high. Something to worry about? I meet Doc next week.
Saying all this doesn't mean that much to starting a worthwhile conversation, saying in range, out range, and so on doesn't mean anything, as it were as in-range, for instance in a good number of tests is far from being good for you. Post your labs with the lab ranges...screenshot, upload a .pdf, etc etc
 
#4
I don't know about you, but last weeks sensitive estrogen labs show me at 29.6 pg/mL and I was experiencing all the symptoms of high estrogen, bloated, irritability and generally not feeling well. In ranges doesn't translate into you feeling good, some doctors seem think so.

When my estrogen is lower I feel amazing and have loads of energy, libido is insane, however when estrogen is high all those benefits are greatly diminished.
 
Thread starter #6
Saying all this doesn't mean that much to starting a worthwhile conversation, saying in range, out range, and so on doesn't mean anything, as it were as in-range, for instance in a good number of tests is far from being good for you. Post your labs with the lab ranges...screenshot, upload a .pdf, etc etc
Okay, just posted results.
 
#7
Test results attached.
Why would you be surprised by those TT/FT levels your dose is way too high for trt.....200mg/week (100mg every 3.5 days).....what did you expect?

Lower your dose and what is your SHBG as it is critical to know as it will dictate ones dose/injection frequency?

As far as muscle mass do not expect anything regarding significant gains.....sure 200mg/week is a hefty dose and not needed for trt as it would put most mens TT in the 1600+ ng/dl range and even than for one to experience significant gains in muscle mass one would need to use high doses of testosterone 300-600mg/week which would cause ones testosterone levels TT/FT to be well into the supra-physiological range as in 2000-4000+ ng/dl.
 
Thread starter #8
Why would you be surprised by those TT/FT levels your dose is way too high for trt.....200mg/week (100mg every 3.5 days).....what did you expect?

Lower your dose and what is your SHBG as it is critical to know as it will dictate ones dose/injection frequency?

As far as muscle mass do not expect anything regarding significant gains.....sure 200mg/week is a hefty dose and not needed for trt as it would put most mens TT in the 1600+ ng/dl range and even than for one to experience significant gains in muscle mass one would need to use high doses of testosterone 300-600mg/week which would cause ones testosterone levels TT/FT to be well into the supra-physiological range as in 2000-4000+ ng/dl.
I'm surprised at those levels because nothing my Doc suggested or what I have researched suggests I could go from a total T <200 to over 1300 or a free T <3 to over 300 in 10 weeks on my dosage. May be a hefty dose, but certainly not unusual with my initial levels, was it?
SHBG was not on this test, was tested initially and was 50 nmol/L.

I understand your point on muscle mass, I may have been expecting a body composition change beyond what I have experienced.
 
#9
I'm surprised at those levels because nothing my Doc suggested or what I have researched suggests I could go from a total T <200 to over 1300 or a free T <3 to over 300 in 10 weeks on my dosage. May be a hefty dose, but certainly not unusual with my initial levels, was it?
SHBG was not on this test, was tested initially and was 50 nmol/L.
You're taking what is usually considered the maximum TRT dose, 200mg per week.
 
Thread starter #10
You're taking what is usually considered the maximum TRT dose, 200mg per week.
I understand that, but would it be contraindicated with my initial T levels? Even at that dosage, what my Doc expected fell far short of a 100-fold increase in free T level! Was his expectation unrealistic or faulty in some way?
 
#11
I understand that, but would it be contraindicated with my initial T levels? Even at that dosage, what my Doc expected fell far short of a 100-fold increase in free T level! Was his expectation unrealistic or faulty in some way?
I'm not sure about the free T increase, how much to expect there... it's more complicated than total T because SHBG and other factors are at play. But the total T increase does not seem suprising to me.

As far as it being contraindicated... I think there are probably some guys who need that high of a dose, but usually the advice is to start lower and then go up if needed. And most guys end up lower than 200mg per week, some quite a bit lower.
 
#13
Hi, you can get some background for my first 10 weeks of TRT here:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?15466-New-here

Just received 10 week test results and the following were out of reference range:

Urea nitrogen - 27 mg/dl
BUN/creatinine ratio - 28.7
Testosterone, free - 308.5 pg/ml
Testosterone, total - 1336 ng/dl

Tests included CBC, Comprehensive met. panel, etc. Estradiol is in reference range with a value of 38 pg/ml. Talked with Docs office and they are now questioning my initial results which had me <300 for total T and <3 free T. I had questioned these results earlier as well because they were so far below a test I had a couple years ago. If you read my intro at the link above, you will understand my surprise at these values as I really have not had any great physical response to the therapy....no real increase in energy, muscle mass etc. Don't get me wrong, libido is up and I'm no slouch in the weight room, but at those levels seems like I ought to feel like superman! In my somewhat limited research I have not seen free T values this high. Something to worry about? I meet Doc next week.

Whats the reference range on your free T test?
 
Thread starter #14
Whats the reference range on your free T test?
Posted lab results pdf above......reference range for free T is 35-155 pg/ml. Response to my free-T level here in the forums has been a bit ho-hum, but the more "stickies" I read here the more concerned I am about this level. On the other hand, estradiol, hematocrit, etc., don't raise any red flags, at least yet. Is concern legitimate?
 
#15
Has it been pointed out that your likely measuring estradiol with the wrong lab test? The reference range is a dead giveaway. Men ALWAYS want to test e2 via the sensitive (LC, MS/MS) lab. You and your doctor can't put any faith in the results you have.
 
Thread starter #16
Has it been pointed out that your likely measuring estradiol with the wrong lab test? The reference range is a dead giveaway. Men ALWAYS want to test e2 via the sensitive (LC, MS/MS) lab. You and your doctor can't put any faith in the results you have.
Thanks, Coastwatcher....my digging around the resources on this site suggests a need for the sensitive test (LG/MS). Is it true that the standard test I am using usually overstates the true value?
 
#17
Posted lab results pdf above......reference range for free T is 35-155 pg/ml. Response to my free-T level here in the forums has been a bit ho-hum, but the more "stickies" I read here the more concerned I am about this level. On the other hand, estradiol, hematocrit, etc., don't raise any red flags, at least yet. Is concern legitimate?
Is this Quest’s referance range? I ask because I always use quest, and they used that range for my free T one time. But every other time their free T range is (46-224). Just bringing this up because if u go by the range 35-155, ya you’re free T is basically double the top of the range. But if you go by the 46-224 range, you’re only about 38% over the top of the range, which isn’t too too high.
 
#18
Thanks, Coastwatcher....my digging around the resources on this site suggests a need for the sensitive test (LG/MS). Is it true that the standard test I am using usually overstates the true value?
The higher up in the range you score for E2, the more inaccurate the standard test. It's a gamble to run the standard E2 test.
 
#19
I understand that, but would it be contraindicated with my initial T levels? Even at that dosage, what my Doc expected fell far short of a 100-fold increase in free T level! Was his expectation unrealistic or faulty in some way?
The dose your Doctor put you on shows he has no experience with TRT whatsoever. No TRT specialist ever starts someone at 200mg/week. Most TRT specialists don't start using an AI either unless they know you need it. So he's struck out twice and your only 10 weeks out of the gate. I would keep running until you find a Doctor who knows what he's doing. Our Sponsor Defymedical.com works with many here on this forum and they can do it by telephone providing you can get them labs etc and the Doctors at Defy really know their stuff! The BS stops when you go to them and they are quite inexpensive to boot.
 
Thread starter #20
Is this Quest's referance range? I ask because I always use quest, and they used that range for my free T one time. But every other time their free T range is (46-224). Just bringing this up because if u go by the range 35-155, ya you're free T is basically double the top of the range. But if you go by the 46-224 range, you're only about 38% over the top of the range, which isn't too too high.
Interesting, I have not used Quest before so I can't respond to any changes they may have instituted, but 35-155 pg/ml is the reference given on the report. I do see from various sites a 47-244 pg/ml reference range, close to what you mentioned, so it looks like I am closer.
One of the same sites suggests a free T range of 9-30 ng/dl and as percentage of total T a range of 1.6-2.9%. This prompted me to do a quick calculation of my free T in ng/dl and I get 30.9, right at the top of the range, with a %free T which is about 2.3%, right in the ballpark. Hmmmm.....
 
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