My A1C is always at 5.4. I say "always" because I have checked it so many times over the last 4+ years and it never varies from 5.4.
TRT has been underwhelming for 4+ years - Low SHBG
- Thread starter ERO
- Start date
My A1C is always at 5.4. I say "always" because I have checked it so many times over the last 4+ years and it never varies from 5.4.
I have no issues with Estrogen management myself, so I do not need to do anything special there. I don't even need an AI. I do sub-Q injections twice a week, but I have experimented with small daily sub-Q injections (for 6 months) as well. That felt no better than twice a week, so I went back to twice a week for convenience. I have followed Dr Crisler's ideas on low SHBG treatment, but in my case anyway, they offered no help or advantage over "regular" protocols.
captq
Member
TestAdvocate
We like loose cannons
I have been salivating on trying Proviron myself.
Nelson Just did a bit of research on Proviron and it is the dream add on to TRT.
Low liver toxicity, estrogen blocker, highly androgenic, Sex drive enhancer, enhances muscle definition and hardness etc etc
And completely illegal in the US : (
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Yes. Proviron enhances sex drive pretty well. Too bad it is not FDA approved. I have contacted a company to see if they are interested in getting it approved for libido.
It decreases SHBG.
It decreases SHBG.
Last edited:
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
From https://drugs-forum.com
Pharmaceutical Name: Mesterolone (Proviron)
Chemical structure: 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
Molecular weight of base: 304.4716
Effective dose: 25-100 mg / day orally
Available Doses: 10, 20, 25 and 50 mg tabs
Characteristics:
Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron, but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, the result being a hormone that is 3 to 4 times as androgenic and is structurally incapable of forming estrogen. One would imagine then that mesterolone would be a perfect drug to enhance strength and add small but completely lean gains to the frame. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.
Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.
The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.
Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.
Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.
Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.
Pharmaceutical Name: Mesterolone (Proviron)
Chemical structure: 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
Molecular weight of base: 304.4716
Effective dose: 25-100 mg / day orally
Available Doses: 10, 20, 25 and 50 mg tabs
Characteristics:
Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron, but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, the result being a hormone that is 3 to 4 times as androgenic and is structurally incapable of forming estrogen. One would imagine then that mesterolone would be a perfect drug to enhance strength and add small but completely lean gains to the frame. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.
Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.
The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.
Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.
Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.
Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.
This low SHBG thing needs more attention from doctors as there are more and more guys like me and the op who fail to respond to TRT and live suboptimal lives with debilitating symptoms. I would suggest seeking alternative methods like liver and gut detoxification, as well as supporting the adrenals/thyroid function , which is what i am currently doing and i see some improvements, although insignificantly small overall.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I am waiting for one of the low SHBG guys on this site to tell me if they took Metformin and if it increased their SHBG. Anyone?
Nelson,
I have low SHBG - I am at 14 where 20-60 is the normal range, and I have also been taking 1000 Mg of Metformin for 8 weeks now. I am seeing no change in my SHBG and I did test SHBG before I started Metformon and again two weeks ago.
However, I have never had abnormal glucose levels or insulin resistance. I think that the correlation between low SHBG and insulin resistance/diabetes or pre-diabetes is often is often taken as the sole explanation. One should remember that statistically, correlation between two variables does not imply that one causes the other. or said another way, correlation is not the same as causation.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Thanks, ERO for the update.
I think we will eventually find out that there is a mutation in the P450 liver enzyme gene in those with low SHBG who do not have high insulin.
Here are some thoughts from Lee Meyers
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Low_SHBG.aspx
Comments?
I think we will eventually find out that there is a mutation in the P450 liver enzyme gene in those with low SHBG who do not have high insulin.
Here are some thoughts from Lee Meyers
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Low_SHBG.aspx
Comments?
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v24/n2s/pdf/0801281a.pdf?origin=publication_detail this study relates low SHBG with low cortisol (hypocortisolemia), so it would be interesting to see the effects of Hydrocortisone intake on SHBG levels. Since its a serious drug to experiment with and i cant get a prescription, i am currently experimenting with some adrenal glandulars (started 1 week ago), but so far i havent noticed any difference.
Vince Carter
Banned
Low SHBG is nothing to be concerned about, it presents a different protocol to TRT than the standard E3.5D but I'm doing quite well with mine. Only those that have it in their head that they can't (or won't) work with it can honestly say that TRT doesn't work for them. I've written about it in other posts, try a search, or send me a PM.
That is great information - thank you for posting!
Is someone using proviron here (personal experience) ? I'm going to consider it on my TRT for libido purpose. Before TRT my libido was great, but in the last 6 months on TRT, I have a periods of great and bad libido, problem to find the right dose of Testosterone, HCG and Arimidex, so I'm going to try 25 or 50mg of Proviron (Bayer) with minimal, efective dose of testosterone and HCG and I'm hoping that with great blood work, E2 etc..., I'll be able to have sex 5+ times a day and think about it all the time like, when I was 13-18. I'm 25 now.
Will proviron rise my DHT on a bloodtest ?
Sory if topic is wrong.
I will probably open a new one next month with all my bloodwork before TRT, and now on TRT. tnx
Will proviron rise my DHT on a bloodtest ?
Sory if topic is wrong.
I will probably open a new one next month with all my bloodwork before TRT, and now on TRT. tnx
CoastWatcher
Moderator
Speed,
This is an older, lengthy thread. Your post will attract more attention/generate response if you start a new thread.
craig weston
Member
Nelson, I have fairly low SHGB but im finding 60mg Test Cyp to be having a good effect but how do i lower my insulin levels ?
craig weston
Member
M SHBG is 16nmol?L
craig weston
Member
does Testosterone lower insulin ?
craig weston
Member
However, what I hear "on the streets" is that men who are low SHBG or just high converters to estrogen tend to do better with 3X weekly subQ injections. I believe the reason for this is that with smaller doses of testosterone cypionate more often, you get a smoother ride with lower estradiol peaks. The reason this is probably important is that if you are low SHBG, then you are going to be higher free estradiol. And, of course, elevated free estradiol causes many issues for us men
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