Testosterone's Protective Qualities on Pain

[Smokin Joe]

I've been off T now for almost 120 days and I've noticed that the back and neck pain that I have has reared its ugly head due to severe degenerative disc disease.
I have read in other sites pertaining to menopausal women the increase in DDD due to waning estrogen.
All of this leads me to believe that hormone replacement therapy does have positive effects on disc and connective tissue.
Any thoughts ?????????

 

[Nelson Vergel]

TRT has been shown to improve pain and recovery in some men. I know you posted this before, but remind everyone why you stopped TRT.

 

[Vince]

Smokin Joe, I'm wondering why did you stop TRT?

 

[Smokin Joe]

Guys, Thanks for the reply-sorry for the delay-dozed off in the chair.
I stopped TRT in November 2014 due to a sudden rise in PSA-from 1.8 to 10.4 in a short amount of time around September 2014.
A week later PSA came back to 4.2 and then to 2.4. All of this after 14 days of Cipro which led me to believe it was infection. It's been teetering between 2.4 and 2.8.
I stopped using Testosterone November 25th 2014 and my PSA has dropped back to 2.02 from 2.8 after 90 days (January 2015). My doctors want me to have a biopsy-needle aspiration-but I am scared to death of this procedure due to "Needle Tracking" which can spread cancer. There is a better way using Multi-parametric MRI but it's a hard sell to most Urologist right now.
The second problem I had was urinating became difficult. When the doctors performed DRE it is normal every time so I don't know if the swelling is interior in the prostate verses the whole thing.
So with all of that being said I stopped TRT. At this point my numbers have come back to where I'm always at-517 total T and 7.0 Free T. I feel bad mentally as well as physically after stopping.
I am trying to figure out how to navigate this therapy without adding any other meds other than HCG.
I'm open to any suggestions as I am ready to restart TRT.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Smokin Joe

At least you have been able to have your PSA come down again and your normal T production go up. Two great outcomes but you still feel badly.

Are you taking any meds? Are you on HCG now? How are you sleeping?

Any idea on free T3 and free T4?

Did you ever get a prostate/urethra ultrasound done?

I would not associate your TT level of 517 ng/dL with pain.

I have neck degenerative disease and abandoned my desktop computer 6 months ago for a recliner. I use my laptop on my belly. No neck or back pain anymore!!!

 

[CoastWatcher]

Nelson's comment on prostate ultrasound is a good one. I underwent one a year ago to investigate enlargement/voiding issues.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Nelson I have not had a prostate ultra sound done as of yet. I did have a cystiscope done about five years ago but was negative. I take no meds other than Excedrin migraine occasionally. I try very hard to stay away from medication as I have a low tolerance for most. I did try hcg sub q before I quite but it made me very anxious. I would like to try I.M. just to see if I would tolerate it.
I do take some Tribulus and some Tong Kat ALi to help with my low sex drive.
Maybe I'm missing the Free T from 14.5 back to 7.0 ???
I'll have the T-3 and T-4 checked for sure along with the ultra sound if possible.
I am for certain that I want to get back on T if possible.
Do you guys think a Biopsy is warranted with a PSA that consistently comes down when I'm off T?? I'm not sure but my URO wants to. I see him mid-month

 

[Vettester Chris]

I've been off T now for almost 120 days and I've noticed that the back and neck pain that I have has reared its ugly head due to severe degenerative disc disease.
I have read in other sites pertaining to menopausal women the increase in DDD due to waning estrogen.
All of this leads me to believe that hormone replacement therapy does have positive effects on disc and connective tissue.
Any thoughts ?????????

It's a great topic to touch on regarding the events involving perimenopause and menopause with women. Estrogen dominance and progesterone deficiency lead to a whole myriad of issues with all aspects of the endocrine system, including test serum, free test, adrenals in a crazy way, and the thyroid! It's not uncommon to see women have test serum levels anywhere from 2 ng/dl to 10ng/dl, with free test in the 1% range or less due to elevated SHBG. BHRT protocols that also include testosterone have been tremendously beneficial for women going through these phases, and yes, this will help with DDD, bone/skeletal wellness, immune, muscle, skin ... The list goes on ...

 

[Vettester Chris]

There's some excellent reading from Dr. Uzzi Reiss and Suzanne Somers for those interested with anti-aging and the endocrine system, specifically related towards females.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Smokin Joe

I cannot tell you what to do in regards to a prostate biopsy. But if I had a PSA of 2.5 I would decline it. But that is a personal decision.

The decision to go on TRT is also a personal one. If I was you (and decided to do so) I would get my PSA tested before and after 4 weeks of TRT. If your PSA increase was indeed an infection, you will know it.

Your free T is under 2 % of total and may be the reason for your low sexual function. I would stop those supplements since we really do not know what most really contain and their effect on sex hormone binding globulin or albumin.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Thanks again for the advice. I will keep you posted as it goes.
Chris I do think that there are a lot positive effects of BHRT for women and men on the body especially bone and tissue.
Women with early menopause and men with early Low T experience a lot of degenerative processes earlier in life. I see this to be true in friends and family around us.
I'll post some sites that I came across which show the positive effects of Estrogen on the Intervertable disc and connective tissue in women.

 

[Wwhite]

Test and pain

I've been off T now for almost 120 days and I've noticed that the back and neck pain that I have has reared its ugly head due to severe degenerative disc disease.
I have read in other sites pertaining to menopausal women the increase in DDD due to waning estrogen.
All of this leads me to believe that hormone replacement therapy does have positive effects on disc and connective tissue.
Any thoughts ?????????

I've had the same experiences. Pain from herniated cervical disks largely went away when I started testosterone, and came back within weeks when I stopped taking it. After three months, I ended up going back on the testosterone because I didn't want to take anti-inflammatories daily.

Other unanticipated positive effects from the T, in addition to lower pain and inflammation,,included better sleep and a reduction in anxiety. My numbers went from 220-310 total T to around 600.

Yet I still wish I could stop T without having the neck and back pain return. This is because it effects my cognition. I find that my verbal memory is much poorer. And while my mood is positive, it is also too "calm" -- I lack my usual motivation.

Walter

 

[Smokin Joe]

Wow!! Thanks for that reply Wwhite. I have almost the exact experience with Testosterone.
The effects on my discs and joints are great and I to hate anti-inflammatories which are actually more destructive to connective tissue than people really know. There is much information on the web about these kinds of drugs.
While on T though my focus and energy was great and I had better sleep and my patience seemed never ending compared to my "Normal State" if you will.
I am glad that you made this post as I have found little information to back up the effects of Testoaterone on disc and connective tissue. There is alot on the positive effects of Estrogen iin women and the protection that it offers disc and joints during and after menapause.
I hope that more people with Degerative Disc Disease who are on TRT will take note and post their experiences!!!

 

[bruin]

Yet I still wish I could stop T without having the neck and back pain return. This is because it effects my cognition. I find that my verbal memory is much poorer. And while my mood is positive, it is also too "calm" -- I lack my usual motivation.

Walter

Walter, what od you mean by lverbal memory ?
Not familiar with that term, prior to taking T were you an anxious type person, periods or bouts of moos swings and anxiety?
Duane

 

[Wwhite]

Walter, what od you mean by lverbal memory ?
Not familiar with that term, prior to taking T were you an anxious type person, periods or bouts of moos swings and anxiety?
Duane

Hi Duane,

Basically, I have trouble finding words, and I think my memory for them is much worse. I specified "verbal memory" because I don't know if my spatial memory is affected -- I don't think it is.

I have always been a very anxious person, but trt has had a huge anti-anxiety effect. This really surprised me, and in many ways I like it. But the downside is I feel unmotivated, and less enthusiastic about things as well. I've blown assignments that I normally would have gotten a head start on, etc.

These are the reasons I tried to come off and do a restart.

Walter

 

[Smokin Joe]

Walter I am curious-are you using an injecteble or gel for TRT ? Just wondering as different applications have different outcomes in some people. I do agree with you on the "Calming" effect of TRT . For me it was fantastic. I don't think I've ever been that patient before.
How was your qualityof life while being off T? I'm holding my own by using some supplements but I'm headed back to T soon I hope.

 

[Wwhite]

Hi Smokin Joe,

i use Axiron gel, two pumps per day. It has gotten my fee and total T numbers up, and all my other blood work is in line.

Things started to head south for me when I developed the cervical hernias. I'm not sure if declining levels of testosterone led to getting them, or whether I did something while exercising that caused them, and taking pain medication then led to the low T levels. When I tried stopping the Axiron cold turkey, I was fine for about a month. Then the pain in my neck, shoulders and arms returned, along with intermittent general inflammation. By week 12 I was on anti-inflammatory medicine daily; my total T was 348 (350-1100) and Free T at 8.4 (7-24). Quality of life during those last two months of stopping was not great. I do wonder if my levels might have moved upward if I had stayed off for a few months longer, but I was grateful to get back on at the time.
i hope you are able to take T again, and even more that you see a rise in your numbers without T.

Walter

 

[Smokin Joe]

Walter-Thanks for the reply. I was on injecteble for most of the time that I was on T. I tried Andro gel for a while but it seemed to make me achy in the shoulders. Injecteble works great but I'm concerned about the different effects between injecteble and els or creams. From what I've read gels and crams don't hit the prostate as hard as injectebles due to the daily usually morning applications of gels/crams.
I know what you mean about the cervical disc. I know that being off of T has certainly led me to more pain in the C-spine and the L-spine. I am trying to stay away from meds at this point but it is difficult when youa re in pain.
I am going to try Fortesta when I start back.
My T levels have returned back to base levels. 517 Total and 7.0 Free T.
Because I have always had low Free T, Ihave to think this is why I felt so much better brining my levels up to 14.5.
Best I have ever felt. My hematicrit did go up to the 51 which was another reason to stop for the moment. I am reserching heavily for my re-start.