HCG Timeline and Dosage

[Spandex]

Hello,

I've searched the forums here, various facebook groups and Reddit on about anything I could on HCG. So I firmly understand that HCG is quite variable in its effects depending on the person. With that said, I am curious on anecdotadotal expreriences on timeline of changes folks have experienced and from what doseage. Did you notice anytihng after first shot? First week? What did you notice at different times? What was good or bad?

My background: My T was boderline low, around 300-400 in the morning based on a couple tests. I was tired of being tired and my urologist suggested Kyzatrex (oral T). I used that for about a month and it was affective. However, I requested to be changed to injections (mostly for convenience) and am currenlty on 120mg/week split into two shots a week. Have been doing that for a couple weeks now. I think I would like to up that if my uro allows it based on how I felt on certain peaks and valleys on the Kyzatrex. But will be a couple months till I go for new bloods. I just got the HCG and first shot was yesterday.

Since injections crush LH and FSH more than the pills, I asked about HCG. I don't really care too much about balls and load size atm. But I am interested in maintancence in the event I need to go off T. Also, I have ready so many anecdotes about other positive effects that I am mostly interested in those. The biggest ones being primarily penile sensitivity and increased total T due to contribution from the testicles.

I felt effects from Kyzatrex right away. First pill I felt flush. That went away, but it was real. I have a buddy who just changed from gel to injections and he felt the effects from his first shot. This goes against what most people say, but this is not placebo. It's an actual physcial feeling. I didn't notice anyting from my first injection, but I attribute that to having already been on Kyzatrex for a while.

 

[Vince]

When I started trt, I actually noticed a huge difference with my first injection.

My original protocol was 70 mg of testosterone cypionate and 500 IU of HCG twice a week. A weekly total 140 mg of testosterone and 1000 iu of HCG.

I did get the testosterone flu along with a ton of energy, great libido and no brain fog.

 

[Phil Goodman]

For me I noticed the effects around week 3, of which the biggest ones were reversal of atrophy, better sensitivity, and better orgasms. Like you said though, everyone is different and this is especially true with regards to HCG. Also, the effects may be more subtle for you because you are starting it very early in your protocol instead of waiting until your body dials in on test and significant atrophy has occurred.

Another thing is that you seem to be bouncing around a lot and not giving your body time to settle in. Started with oral treatment. One month later switched to injections. A few weeks later and you’re already adding HCG and talking about upping your dose. Adding HCG should help you to produce your own so that will increase levels at least somewhat. I would recommend sticking with your current dose and adding HCG then seeing how it goes for about 8 weeks before thinking about increasing your dose. Also, while the cookie cutter approach for HCG seems to be 500 ius twice/week, I’ve had better results with 250 ius three times/week. Another benefit is that lower doses make it less likely you’ll burn out receptors, which some data does indicate that can occur with HCG. Not really sure what other input your looking for, but feel free to ask follow up questions.

 

[Spandex]

Another thing is that you seem to be bouncing around a lot and not giving your body time to settle in. Started with oral treatment. One month later switched to injections. A few weeks later and you’re already adding HCG and talking about upping your dose.

Appreciate your feedback. I think I'm prescribed 600iu two times per week.. Let me see if my math is correct: The vial is 12,000iu. I added 6ml bacwater as instructed. So the concentration of the vial with the bacwater is 2,000iu per ml. The injection draw is 30 syringe units or 0.3ml. 0.3ml is therefore 600iu. I'm supposed to administer 0.3ml 2 times per week. I'm decent at math, but have been known to fumble unit conversions. So I'm close to double your regiment. Man, HCG doesages are all over the place. I see everything from 250 to 1000, two days a week, eod, ed, etc. And that's just for regular dudes - not bodybuilder stuff. Fertility doses approach multiple thousands a week!

Regarding bouncing around...The pills were giving me acid reflux and it was annoying having to tote them around. No need to see if that was cool for two more months. The HCG was prescribed at the same time as the testosterone, but the pharmacy had a delay in getting it to me. As for wanting to increase my doseage...yeah, time will tell. I have about two more months before any doseage changes are made. While I'm not looking to be a body builder, or even lift weights beyond what helps me in my sport and general health (mid 40s guy here), I am looking to maximize the benefits of TRT just short of detrimental side affects. I have my doubts 120mg/week will get me there, but I will find out. I am new to this. I did take bloods before swithing from pills to injections. My markers were essentially unchanged except my LH and FSH were whacked by 50 percent. Hemocrit went from 45 to 43 whatever units. I think that coudl be chalked that up to daily variability.

TRT dosage is all over the place in regards to who thinks what is appropriate. It seems that the sagest (and most conservative) wisdom is to start low (about 100 mg/week, split up at least two times) and gradually work up over the course of a year or two. Yet many online clinics (some of which have a very good reputation in the forums) start you right at 200mg/week and adjust from there. It seems that either approach probably works for *most* guys.

 

[Mastodont]

What i would like to know, could not find a thread on the subject, is has anyone noticed a difference when injecting HCG intramuscular instead of subq?
I remember @Nelson Vergel used to do combined shots of t+hcg in the shoulder.
Many studies on HCG used intramuscular route, on reddit you will see both camps represented, not surprising.

 

[Mastodont]

Pharmacokinetics of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Injection in Obese and Normal-Weight Women

Obese women have poorer in vitro fertilization outcomes, but underlying mechanisms remain unclear.The objectives of the study were to compare the pharmacokinetics of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ovarian steroid hormone production, after subcutaneous ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AND then again:

"There was a significantly higher serum hCG level in the SC group (348.6 ± 98 IU/L) vs. the IM group (259.0 ± 115 IU/L) and a significantly higher follicular fluid hCG level in the SC vs. the IM group (233.5 ± 85 vs. 143.4 ± 134 IU/L)."

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(02)04918-X/fulltext

 

[Vince]

What i would like to know, could not find a thread on the subject, is has anyone noticed a difference when injecting HCG intramuscular instead of subq?
I remember @Nelson Vergel used to do combined shots of t+hcg in the shoulder.
Many studies on HCG used intramuscular route, on reddit you will see both camps represented, not surprising.

I inject both testosterone and HCG in the same syringe. Just like Nelson. Instead of injecting HCG every 3 and 1/2 days now I do every third day.

I inject the combo only in my shoulder with a 29 and 1/2 in syringe. I love combining the two and I love injecting the two together. It gives me a psychological high for some reason.

 

[Mastodont]

I inject both testosterone and HCG in the same syringe. Just like Nelson. Instead of injecting HCG every 3 and 1/2 days now I do every third day.

I inject the combo only in my shoulder with a 29 and 1/2 in syringe. I love combining the two and I love injecting the two together. It gives me a psychological high for some reason.

So it works just as well or even better intramuscularly, i have never tried but plannning to give it a shot.

 

[Spandex]

I inject both testosterone and HCG in the same syringe. Just like Nelson. Instead of injecting HCG every 3 and 1/2 days now I do every third day.

I inject the combo only in my shoulder with a 29 and 1/2 in syringe. I love combining the two and I love injecting the two together. It gives me a psychological high for some reason.

I heard on a podcast from a Matrix clinic representative that since the HCG is delicate, it can be damaged and lose its efficacy if drawn into a syringe with T. Kind of like you're not supposed to shake it to mix it. But I don't see how it would damage it any more than drawing it into its own syringe.

 

[madman]

Hello,

I've searched the forums here, various facebook groups and Reddit on about anything I could on HCG. So I firmly understand that HCG is quite variable in its effects depending on the person. With that said, I am curious on anecdotadotal expreriences on timeline of changes folks have experienced and from what doseage. Did you notice anytihng after first shot? First week? What did you notice at different times? What was good or bad?

My background: My T was boderline low, around 300-400 in the morning based on a couple tests. I was tired of being tired and my urologist suggested Kyzatrex (oral T). I used that for about a month and it was affective. However, I requested to be changed to injections (mostly for convenience) and am currenlty on 120mg/week split into two shots a week. Have been doing that for a couple weeks now. I think I would like to up that if my uro allows it based on how I felt on certain peaks and valleys on the Kyzatrex. But will be a couple months till I go for new bloods. I just got the HCG and first shot was yesterday.

Since injections crush LH and FSH more than the pills, I asked about HCG. I don't really care too much about balls and load size atm. But I am interested in maintancence in the event I need to go off T. Also, I have ready so many anecdotes about other positive effects that I am mostly interested in those. The biggest ones being primarily penile sensitivity and increased total T due to contribution from the testicles.

I felt effects from Kyzatrex right away. First pill I felt flush. That went away, but it was real. I have a buddy who just changed from gel to injections and he felt the effects from his first shot. This goes against what most people say, but this is not placebo. It's an actual physcial feeling. I didn't notice anyting from my first injection, but I attribute that to having already been on Kyzatrex for a while.

Welcome to Nelson's domain!

You need to understand how exogenous esterified T works.

First 4-6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture!

Need to give the protocol 12 weeks before making any adjustments unless your trough FT was too low at the 6 week mark once blood levels have stabilized and blood work is done.

Highly doubtful your trough FT will be too low injecting 120 mg T/week split into twice-weekly injections (60 mg T every 3.5 days) let alone throwing in the hCG to boot!

As we always say best to start low and slow on a T-only protocol.

Stick around and you will see how this works.

Forget the 200 mg T/week protocols pushed by those dime a dozen run of the mill T clinics, bro forums loaded with those blast n cruizerzzz polluting the numerous so called men's health forums let alone some of those so called HRT gurus.

Pure nonsense!

The majority of men would never need the high-end dose 200 mg T/week to achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level let alone experience the beneficial effects of having healthy FT levels.

Hi, new guy (40) on TRT from the Netherlands

Hi guys, new to this group. I'm a dutch guy, 40 years old, from the Netherlands. My story is that over the years, I was experiencing some symptoms; mainly a lack of energy and motivation, sometimes brain fog. Libido was dropping as well. I went to my primary doctor, and they tested my level of...

www.excelmale.com

Tips to Dial In Test C + HCG Protocol

I just had bloodwork done after 4 months on this protocol: 1) 45mg of test cypionate 2x weekly (90mg total per week) 2) 500IU of Pregnyl 2x weekly (1,000IU total per week) My labs are attached. The free T didn't show up on the PDF but it's 823 pmol/L, which is well above the reference range of...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

For me I noticed the effects around week 3, of which the biggest ones were reversal of atrophy, better sensitivity, and better orgasms. Like you said though, everyone is different and this is especially true with regards to HCG. Also, the effects may be more subtle for you because you are starting it very early in your protocol instead of waiting until your body dials in on test and significant atrophy has occurred.

Another thing is that you seem to be bouncing around a lot and not giving your body time to settle in. Started with oral treatment. One month later switched to injections. A few weeks later and you’re already adding HCG and talking about upping your dose. Adding HCG should help you to produce your own so that will increase levels at least somewhat. I would recommend sticking with your current dose and adding HCG then seeing how it goes for about 8 weeks before thinking about increasing your dose. Also, while the cookie cutter approach for HCG seems to be 500 ius twice/week, I’ve had better results with 250 ius three times/week. Another benefit is that lower doses make it less likely you’ll burn out receptors, which some data does indicate that can occur with HCG. Not really sure what other input your looking for, but feel free to ask follow up questions.

Doubtful anyone is burning out their receptors!

Pros and cons of using TRT vs HCG for treatment low-t symptoms

Human chorionic gonadotropin treatment: a viable option for management of secondary hypogonadism and male infertility (2020) Julius Fink, Brad J. Schoenfeld, Anthony C. Hackney, Takahiro Maekawa & Shigeo Horie Abstract Introduction: Low testosterone and its symptoms is a condition affecting...

www.excelmale.com

* It is currently unknown if long-term administration of HCG can lead to side effects such as gonadotropin resistance

HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) Vrs HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) - What’s the difference?

I was just watching a video on YouTube titled: ”The Pro's & Con's Of HCG On Cycle | Desensitisation | Testicular Volume | Semen Volume | Fertility”. Video Link The speaker who appears to understand the subject much better than I do introduced HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) which he...

www.excelmale.com

Single and multi‐dose pharmacology of recombinant and urinary hCG in men

1 | INTRODUCTION Gonadotrophin treatment to induce puberty, spermatogenesis, and fertility in men with congenital or acquired gonadotropin deficiency is based on treatment with human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), aplacental heterodimeric glycoprotein hormone and natural, long‐acting analog of...

www.excelmale.com

*The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG




*In this real‐world therapeutic analysis, the time course of serum hCG and testosterone did not differ significantly between the hCG products, although an expected log‐linear decline of serum hCG over time was observed. The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG. This is because these higher hCG doses were only arrived at after individual upward dose titration of hCG in treated men whose serum testosterone was not normalized on standard hCG doses.16 As a result, these two hCG products at these standard doses tested can be considered pharmacologically interchangeable for the treatment of gonadotrophin‐deficient men

 

[Phil Goodman]

So it works just as well or even better intramuscularly, i have never tried but plannning to give it a shot.

I’ve done both after reading that absorption via IM was much better. Went to IM but didn’t really notice a difference, and went back to sub q since it wasn’t worth having more IM shots each week. I’ve been dialed in on 3 small(250 ius) sub q shots each week for over a year now. I like this much better than 500 ius twice/week, regardless of whether those 500 were IM or sub q.

 

[Spandex]

Welcome to Nelson's domain!

You need to understand how exogenous esterified T works.

First 4-6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture!

Need to give the protocol 12 weeks before making any adjustments unless your trough FT was too low at the 6 week mark once blood levels have stabilized and blood work is done.

Highly doubtful your trough FT will be too low injecting 120 mg T/week split into twice-weekly injections (60 mg T every 3.5 days) let alone throwing in the hCG to boot!

As we always say best to start low and slow on a T-only protocol.

Stick around and you will see how this works.

Forget the 200 mg T/week protocols pushed by those dime a dozen run of the mill T clinics, bro forums loaded with those blast n cruizerzzz polluting the numerous so called men's health forums let alone some of those so called HRT gurus.

Pure nonsense!

The majority of men would never need the high-end dose 200 mg T/week to achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level let alone experience the beneficial effects of having healthy FT levels.

Hi, new guy (40) on TRT from the Netherlands

Hi guys, new to this group. I'm a dutch guy, 40 years old, from the Netherlands. My story is that over the years, I was experiencing some symptoms; mainly a lack of energy and motivation, sometimes brain fog. Libido was dropping as well. I went to my primary doctor, and they tested my level of...

www.excelmale.com

Tips to Dial In Test C + HCG Protocol

I just had bloodwork done after 4 months on this protocol: 1) 45mg of test cypionate 2x weekly (90mg total per week) 2) 500IU of Pregnyl 2x weekly (1,000IU total per week) My labs are attached. The free T didn't show up on the PDF but it's 823 pmol/L, which is well above the reference range of...

www.excelmale.com

Appreciate your reply @madman . It's pretty difficult to discern what is real and what is BS. Some of it is obvious, but some is not. I am planning to stay the course till my next blood test.

 

[Michael D]

A bit off-topic, but related question. My last vial of reconstituted HCG was cloudy. Is it OK to use it or should I throw it away??

 

[Anonymon]

A bit off-topic, but related question. My last vial of reconstituted HCG was cloudy. Is it OK to use it or should I throw it away??

I personally wouldn’t trust it. Is it prescription? If so you can likely have it replaced.

 

[Anonymon]

I’ve done different HCG schemes, and found that there does seem to be a minimum dose threshold to achieve more of the positive effects from it outside of preventing testicular atrophy. 250-350iu minimum, which goes along with the charts Dr. Saya made of his tests. Generally within a few days I’ll mentally feel a lot better, as I have issues with neural steroids. At a dose like that it will persist in the few days after. I came into all this from PFS, and respond pretty well to things affecting neurosteroids that 5AR would normally help with. Highest HCG dose I did for years was around 720iu’s 3x a week. My results did seem dose-dependent, and more was better than less. I inject test daily and used to do HCG daily at 100ius, but 250-350iu as a minimum injected less frequently was notably better for me mentally. Dopamine seemed higher, senses were deeper, mood was up, libido up, etc. 720iu’s 3x a week also seemingly raised my Total T by 150-500. Blood tests varied wildly there with no change in my test protocol. HCG brand did change at times though.

I ran out for a little bit and felt the loss of that because my prescriptions were being delayed by many months. Wasn’t completely horrible but I did feel way less good. Now I’m on 400 3x a week. Used to get a prescription but for HCG I go grey market now because in addition to the unpredictably long delays, the price per bottle for prescription more than doubled from its already high price, and the amounts per prescription also went down. Price difference between UGL and prescription for me became around $400.

I’ve always injected HCG and test in the same syringe and never had any issues. I do that with other things too like HGH if it’s a morning dose, or even B12.

 

[Vince]

So it works just as well or even better intramuscularly, i have never tried but plannning to give it a shot.

I don't know if it really matters if you inject it intramuscular or subq. But for me the shoulder works best.

 

[Vince]

I heard on a podcast from a Matrix clinic representative that since the HCG is delicate, it can be damaged and lose its efficacy if drawn into a syringe with T. Kind of like you're not supposed to shake it to mix it. But I don't see how it would damage it any more than drawing it into its own syringe.

Yes, I agree. I never shake my hcg. I do not believe it loses any any strength when injecting both together.