Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)

[jayman2239]

Got an initial ferritin level of 40, tested on 12/19. Did one week of your protocol (felt much better energy wise and still do since) but according to a test I had done yesterday at Quest, my ferritin levels actually dropped to 34.

Any thoughts?

 

[FDV70]

Got an initial ferritin level of 40,
, my ferritin levels actually dropped to 34.

Did your hemoglobin move up at all in that time? I've never seen a drop.

 

[Systemlord]

Iron polysaccharide replaces ferritin directly.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Got an initial ferritin level of 40, tested on 12/19. Did one week of your protocol (felt much better energy wise and still do since) but according to a test I had done yesterday at Quest, my ferritin levels actually dropped to 34.

Any thoughts?

Ferritin lab results do not solely show stored iron level. Ferritin is also a phase reactant that responds to levels of inflammation. It can be wildy inaccurate. When I had a severe reaction to an infused cancer drug, my ferritin increased to 2000 for a short period, then resolved right back to normal level.

You are talking about single digit variations here. A change of 7 points. This much change could happen because your higher number was after a meal with something that slightly provoked you immume system, or you have a bad night's sleep, lack of oxygen leading to a little inflammation.

 

[jayman2239]

Ferritin lab results do not solely show stored iron level. Ferritin is also a phase reactant that responds to levels of inflammation. It can be wildy inaccurate. When I had a severe reaction to an infused cancer drug, my ferritin increased to 2000 for a short period, then resolved right back to normal level.

You are talking about single digit variations here. A change of 7 points. This much change could happen because your higher number was after a meal with something that slightly provoked you immume system, or you have a bad night's sleep, lack of oxygen leading to a little inflammation.

So forgive me for these dumb questions I'm about to ask but I'm 24 years old, a little dumb, and very sleep deprived.
I should note that I am not on TRT, my test level is ~550, I actually stumbled upon this thread because I've been having severe sleep issues for the past ~2 years that have been impeding me from getting a job post-college, and have yet to have any real progress towards a solution.

Based off what you said in your last paragraph, considering I am sleep deprived (~3-4 hours of terrible sleep every night for the past 23 months or so), could that mean that my ferritin is actually being raised by inflammation from my terrible sleep, and my "actual" numbers could be even lower? Or am I misunderstanding?

Numbers aside, after taking 60mg of Iron 3x per day for a week, my energy levels have gone back to "pre-sleep issue" levels, despite my sleep still being terrible. I assumed this could easily just be placebo, but ~3 weeks later post supplementation I still feel great so I'm not sure if this is just a really great placebo, or if there's something else going on that is worth investigating.

 

[Systemlord]

I should note that I am not on TRT, my test level is ~550

A TT measurement is almost meaningless without a FT measurement. You don’t know how much T is actually free and unbound.

 

[FDV70]

Iron polysaccharide replaces ferritin directly.

Not sure what you mean. Not as a serum measure of ferritin. When someone does my protocol, hepcidin raises to the point where iron is sequestered, so the ferritin rise comes from recycled RBC iron. Oral iron supps are to raise hepcidin in my protocol, and are not intended to be absorbed, except for the first day's dose.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

So forgive me for these dumb questions I'm about to ask but I'm 24 years old, a little dumb, and very sleep deprived.
I should note that I am not on TRT, my test level is ~550, I actually stumbled upon this thread because I've been having severe sleep issues for the past ~2 years that have been impeding me from getting a job post-college, and have yet to have any real progress towards a solution.

Based off what you said in your last paragraph, considering I am sleep deprived (~3-4 hours of terrible sleep every night for the past 23 months or so), could that mean that my ferritin is actually being raised by inflammation from my terrible sleep, and my "actual" numbers could be even lower? Or am I misunderstanding?

Numbers aside, after taking 60mg of Iron 3x per day for a week, my energy levels have gone back to "pre-sleep issue" levels, despite my sleep still being terrible. I assumed this could easily just be placebo, but ~3 weeks later post supplementation I still feel great so I'm not sure if this is just a really great placebo, or if there's something else going on that is worth investigating.

I am not suggesting sleep issues as a diagnosis in your case, only in reference to there being a huge range of things that could influence inflammation which in turn could influence your ferritin level. I am not going to go near your particular specifics here, I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to asses what you are telling us.

I will say though that finding out and correcting your sleep issues would be a good thing!

 

[jayman2239]

I am not suggesting sleep issues as a diagnosis in your case, only in reference to there being a huge range of things that could influence inflammation which in turn could influence your ferritin level. I am not going to go near your particular specifics here, I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to asses what you are telling us.

I will say though that finding out and correcting your sleep issues would be a good thing!

Understood, thanks.

I do have an in-lab sleep study at the end of the month so we'll see how that goes. I'm just paranoid that nothing will come up because I was negative for apnea in my home study and don't have any clear symptoms of any other major sleep disorder, so I'm just slowly chipping away at other possibilities.

 

[M.J]

I faced problem sleeping due to blood donation. As ferritin went way down But ferritin was around 13 or even 9…
If it’s very low I sleep only two hours then I wake up !!! I also had blood pressure problems around those levels m.

As it goes up my sleeping time increases to 4 hours then slowly get back to normal and I don’t wake up. I believe maybe above 20 or 30 things get normal.

But I guess your in the 30’s so I guess it’s not as bad.

 

[FDV70]

could that mean that my ferritin is actually being raised by inflammation from my terrible sleep, and my "actual" numbers could be even lower? Or am I misunderstanding?

Ferritin raised from inflammation is molecularly identical to ferritin raised from food or iron pills. So that number is always an actual number. Remember that serum ferritin is what is measured, and serum ferritin is efflux from ferritin in hepatocytes.

There are two paths to arrive at making ferritin, and the inflammatory one is driven by Interleukin 6. Lack of sleep doesn't raise cytokines, so lack of sleep would not raise ferritin. However, there is a possibility that your initial ferritin measurement of 40 was driven up by some inflammation and later the 34 it had gone down, but here's the thing -- ferritin can only fall if the body take iron from storage. And that happens when you have a low hemoglobin (you don't, you're on TRT) or you have a hepcidin disorder, such as an HFE gene mutation.

I have seen guys get over Covid with ferritin levels in the 400's who are on TRT and the ferritin doesn't fall. Women, sure. But a male on TRT is going to have a hemoglobin of 17 or so. Ferritin driven up by inflammation or iron pills isn't going to drop in a guy on Test unless he loses blood.

If you persistently have a low ferritin at a young age no matter what, even after my protocol, it's a possibility that you carry gene(s) for hemochromatosis. My protocol depends on hepcidin and hepcidin can't go up in hemochromatosis. One guy who did my protocol, and it didn't work, discovered he had hemochromatosis (he was catching it at a young age. By 55-60, iron overload has caused cellular iron deposits, which is why ferritin is high by that age in people with hemochromatosis). Which made sense since the whole thing depends entirely on raising hepcidin.

Overall I would say it's worth getting a check to see if you carry a gene for it, or as has been suggested, it was a variation in measurement. Although Ferritin is an acute phase reactant, it takes 48 hours to move up anyway, a little faster if your RBCs are 7 but I've rarely seen that. You only recycle RBCs so fast. As detailed on my page, iron homeostasis has a lot of moving parts.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Ferritin raised from inflammation is molecularly identical to ferritin raised from food or iron pills. So that number is always an actual number. Remember that serum ferritin is what is measured, and serum ferritin is efflux from ferritin in hepatocytes.

There are two paths to arrive at making ferritin, and the inflammatory one is driven by Interleukin 6. Lack of sleep doesn't raise cytokines, so lack of sleep would not raise ferritin. However, there is a possibility that your initial ferritin measurement of 40 was driven up by some inflammation and later the 34 it had gone down, but here's the thing -- ferritin can only fall if the body take iron from storage. And that happens when you have a low hemoglobin (you don't, you're on TRT) or you have a hepcidin disorder, such as an HFE gene mutation.

I have seen guys get over Covid with ferritin levels in the 400's who are on TRT and the ferritin doesn't fall. Women, sure. But a male on TRT is going to have a hemoglobin of 17 or so. Ferritin driven up by inflammation or iron pills isn't going to drop in a guy on Test unless he loses blood.

If you persistently have a low ferritin at a young age no matter what, even after my protocol, it's a possibility that you carry gene(s) for hemochromatosis. My protocol depends on hepcidin and hepcidin can't go up in hemochromatosis. One guy who did my protocol, and it didn't work, discovered he had hemochromatosis (he was catching it at a young age. By 55-60, iron overload has caused cellular iron deposits, which is why ferritin is high by that age in people with hemochromatosis). Which made sense since the whole thing depends entirely on raising hepcidin.

Overall I would say it's worth getting a check to see if you carry a gene for it, or as has been suggested, it was a variation in measurement. Although Ferritin is an acute phase reactant, it takes 48 hours to move up anyway, a little faster if your RBCs are 7 but I've rarely seen that. You only recycle RBCs so fast. As detailed on my page, iron homeostasis has a lot of moving parts.

Thanks for you post. Please do correct me on such things.

I apologize that I conflated sleep issues directly with inflammation. I was referring to results of sleep apnea, and inflammation related to hypoxia. Probably not IL-6 related without other causative contributors?

How about we toss the sleep example and sub in a "fever from virus exposure" as possible phase reactant cause?

My point was that 7 points difference in ferritin labs is not terribly significant without further serial testing, and can just represent noise in testing methodology or movement from phase reaction. A longer term trend would be more useful and conclusive.

 

[jayman2239]

Did your hemoglobin move up at all in that time? I've never seen a drop.

Late reply, but my hemoglobin actually went from 17.1 down to 16.2 (which I assume is just a normal day-to-day type fluctuation?). HCT from 50.9 to 47.6 as well.

My Doc tested me for hemochromatosis, still waiting for a result on that though. I'm thinking it could also be celiac, but I had an upper endoscopy done last April so I assume they would've caught that.

 

[Clear]

Hello Fred! I searched for your email on your website but thought I would leave a reply here instead.

I'm on TRT.

My iron is 221 (range 65-175) - HIGH
% Iron Sat 49% (13-45%) - HIGH
Transferrin 330 (203-362) - NORMAL
Total Iron Binding Capacity 460 (261-478) - NORMAL


Hemoglobin 17.5 (13.5-18) - NORMAL
Hemocrit 52.9% (41-53) - NORMAL

Ferritin 21.9 (23.9-336.2) - LOW

Vitamin D 110 (30-100) - HIGH


Would your protocol work for me or is it not advisable since I already have a high iron level? I read your website and understand the logic behind it. My understanding is that with non-heme iron, it shouldn't be absorbed and instead be stored right? As long as I'm not taking Vitamin D, C or have high estradiol? (But my blood levels of Vitamin D are currently high, would this affect the absorption?) I read that your protocol shouldn't increase hemocrit levels, but I was unsure about the iron levels in my case.
(Donated blood twice in the past year which probably crashed my ferritin levels.)

Hopefully you could provide some insight. Thanks man!

 

[Systemlord]

My iron is 221 (range 65-175) - HIGH

Serum iron isn’t very accurate. If you think the all of the serum iron is available to all your tissues, think again.

The ferritin is the most reliable bio marker for iron status.

 

[Clear]

Serum iron isn’t very accurate. If you think the all of the serum iron is available to all your tissues, think again.

The ferritin is the most reliable bio marker for iron status.

Ah okay man, thanks. Just recently started reading into the correlation between TRT and ferritin. Been on TRT about six years. First three months were great, I felt absolutely amazing, but after that my energy levels dropped some. I attributed it to my body getting used to the normal levels of testosterone and maybe some placebo when I first started. However recently I've been much MUCH more tired. Hoping I can get my ferritin fixed and feel great. Thank you for the reply

 

[Systemlord]

First three months were great, I felt absolutely amazing, but after that my energy levels dropped some.

Join the club, first week was amazing, second week fatigue and losing all benefits. Supplement 140 mg iron daily, all benefits retuned.

I stopped TRT and ferritin recovered (128) in 2 months time without iron supplements. Then went back on TRT and within 2 months ferritin <24.

 

[jayman2239]

If you persistently have a low ferritin at a young age no matter what, even after my protocol, it's a possibility that you carry gene(s) for hemochromatosis. My protocol depends on hepcidin and hepcidin can't go up in hemochromatosis. One guy who did my protocol, and it didn't work, discovered he had hemochromatosis (he was catching it at a young age. By 55-60, iron overload has caused cellular iron deposits, which is why ferritin is high by that age in people with hemochromatosis). Which made sense since the whole thing depends entirely on raising hepcidin.

Test for the hemochromatosis gene (C282Y and H63D) came back negative.

Did another 4 days of your protocol and got my levels checked again and my ferritin was 35. So 1 point higher than last time but still lower than my original result of 40. Tsat, TIBC, and everything else was normal. Everything normal on CBC. Tests were done roughly 4 days after finishing the protocol.

The strange part is that my fatigue issues have gone away after the protocol despite my numbers not moving.

 

[jayman2239]

Maybe a dumb thought but perhaps worth asking, could nicotine consumption affect either the results of my test or the effectiveness of the protocol itself?

I don’t smoke anymore (from ages ~16-19 I was a social smoker, probably like 2 packs a year) but I do use nicotine gum.

I’m going to abstain for the next week or two then get tested again and see if anything is different.

 

[Systemlord]

The strange part is that my fatigue issues have gone away after the protocol despite my numbers not moving.

Don’t forget there is a lag time between hormones rising and response to hormones. The body isn’t a microprocessing computer, things don’t happen on the fly.