"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[Belekas]

Wtf? That's crazy high. I think you need to do something to bring it down. I was taking an IP6 supplement at one point and that crashed my ferritin very quickly. You could also donate blood.

Was you taking it with food or away from food?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Was you taking it with food or away from food?

I don't remember, but if you're specifically trying to prevent iron absorption I think you'd want to take it with meals, especially meat.

 

[Belekas]

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[Belekas]

Been learning about Iron and its disorders since getting back my GPs blood results and seeing Ferritin 400 and TS at 52%. To behonest I think everyone should look a lot more into this issue and check if they don't have any disorders and basically that is how we get seriously sick. Main thing is that people and Docs only check Ferritin and its an accute response measurement that might be high because of many different issues and does tell only a small part of the overall picture. Ferritin builds up slowly over the lifetime and then around 40-60 years of age (ruff number) suddenly you see it spikes badly into hundreds or even thousands. Then you get checked for a complete Iron panel and notice that your TS% is above or way above the range high meaning that your Iron is not getting accepted in the cell and reversed back into the circulation by Ferroportin. That means that you have been poisoning yourself for a long ass time without fucking knowing it. That is how I understand it. Then the doc orders MRIs of liver, as its the first organ that gonna get excess iron deposit, and heart, brain, etc, not in particular order. And suddenly, not in your favour, you see that you have injuries here or there that can lead to terrible consequences. I will share some interesting reading so that anyone interested could read going forward. So absolutely these things have to be checked. And for guys on TRT ferritin > 120 is a warning and should be a red flag to start inspecting. I chatted with some really smart guys who have been studying Iron disorders for ages and learned some interesting things, but its so complex and hard to grasp, even compared to hormones, that we all dabble here.

So tomorrow I will have a private blood let at home in the evening. Then next week I'm doing a complete Iron panel blood test again to check how the numbers look now. I have been taking IP6 3xday with 3 main meals and also Curcumin together at same time to help with Iron chelation. I have been eating piles of meat in the past 20 years I have been bodybuilding so hopefully my numbers improve as the last test was done right after me being very sick by flu or something and still feeling like crap. So hopefully the high numbers were because of it. If not- we search for answers going forward. Eastern Europeans are more prone to Hereditory Hemachomatosis. There is 4 main types of HH and 2 side types. Before it was believed that you must have both genes to have HH but after chatting with people they see now only 1 gene carriers getting symptoms and have Iron disorders.

Once we get sick, body shuttles iron to ferritin to starve off the virus / bacteria. Temp goes up to cook it and removing serum iron helps inhibit replication. Viruses and bacteria need iron to replicate. Inflammation also can raise ferritin. Some very interesting and amazing points to know about how this thing works. Ofc there is tons more about it which I'm not capable to explain, yet, but will share once I progress further.

Will be doing genetic 23andMe testing in the near future to see if I have any of the faulty genes. GP appoitment next month but there will probably will get a refferal to Hematologist where the que starts from 6 or even 12 months, from what I've read. So currently already have 3 refferals, to the Gastro, Cardiology and to the Laryngology to check on my ears and tinnitus. So more or less looks like the 4th is comming as well lol

Anyway thought I'll give you a quick update of whats going in my hood. Talking about TRT/HRT I'm stacked on Test, Primo and Deca. So once I get green light I will re-start my TRT/HRT again with added tiny amount of Primo as my Deca is not checked and I'm not keen to send it over to Janoshik, as of yet. To be fair I miss being on hormones even though it has its own cons. But all in all i think it feels better to be ON And if talking about sides I had while being on, most I still have while being off although some I don't and I enjoy being OFF, so you know. So that means that TRT wasn't responsible and I have other issues that I'm trying to fix now and that I'm def not getting younger. Live and Learn. So anyway guys exciting times ahead and hope you all are killing it and enjoying the moments while it lasts.

Best of health and luck to everyone who reads this!

Regards,
bel

 

[FunkOdyssey]

And if talking about sides I had while being on, most I still have while being off although some I don't and I enjoy being OFF, so you know. So that means that TRT wasn't responsible and I have other issues that I'm trying to fix now and that I'm def not getting younger. Live and Learn.

Do you mind sharing which issues persisted when you stopped TRT and which improved?

I hope you will do some follow-up bloodwork on the IP6 and let me know if that was effective and just how effective it was. That stuff is to iron like anastrozole is to E2: it's more potent than you think, and if you aren't careful and perform follow-up labs, you might crash.

 

[Belekas]

Do you mind sharing which issues persisted when you stopped TRT and which improved?

I hope you will do some follow-up bloodwork on the IP6 and let me know if that was effective and just how effective it was. That stuff is to iron like anastrozole is to E2: it's more potent than you think, and if you aren't careful and perform follow-up labs, you might crash.

I will make a separate post about being on and off TRT when I have time. The issue with Iron is far more complex then just crashing Ferritin which is just one piece of the puzzle. Transferrin Saturation% is far more important marker and I doub't you can crash it with IP6 to be fair. No fear, but thanks for pointing it out. All focus now on finding the root cause and fixing the issue if there is really an issue. I will know once I get blood test done next week and have the numbers back. Some really smart minds like to keep Ferritin sub 100 to feel best and says you experience symptoms > 120. And like I said if you are on TRT and your Ferritin is > 120 then you might have an actual problem. Last year when I was on TRT my Ferritin came back 124 which is a major red flag and needs to be looked et. Plus with all my weird issues and symptoms I've been having for years this is def concerning. So once I figure out more details to this Iron puzzle I will do a post about pros and cons I've experienced while being on and off TRT. I like to keep my mind sharp and focused on what I'm trying to achieve and don't do 10 things at once. Hope that makes sense

 

[Belekas]

So yesterday had a private blood let at my home and 500ml was gone in less then 30 mins. Awesome service and glad I managed to find a company that does that and all other things like blood tests, IV drips, etc. Also was happy that one of their employes lives not too far from me and came to visit me for 25gbp. If not him I'd have to travel to South London which would been a nightmare for me as I don't drive atm. So anyone need private blood letting, tests, IVs, etc in the UK- let me know and I will direct you.

So its around 9 days I'm taking IP6 3x day with a meal and also Curcumin 500mg 3x day with a meal as well.
Stopped all other supps but few and seems I found Magnesium that I'm able to tolerate. So started just 1g of Magnesium Citrate before sleep, kept that for some days and from 2 days ago I'm doing 2g before bed and also 2g after training or in the morning with food. I'll keep 4g/day for now and see if I don't feel any negatives. 4g of Mag Citrate is 600mg elemental magnesium fwiw. Since long time I couldn't take any form of Mag, and also was taking lots of Vitamin D3, I might have depleted some of Mag along the way. So will raise to 6g if 4g won't give me issues.
Taurine 4-6g/daily. Split morning, post workout and before bed with Mag. Also before bed I'm doing fresh tomato juice(potassium,vitC) with added Mag, Taurine and some sodium. Seems to work fine.
Looking to get Nattokinase and run that long-term. Also looking to get Vitamin K2 MK7 and implement as well. If I restart my TRT/HRT will def up my K2 as its crucial to drive calcium out the artheries to where it needs.

Probably a good week or two ago I finished Taeians "Parasite Protocol". Did that for 2 weeks. Will start my girl now for two weeks as well.

Keeping water intake at 3L now not counting teas or other drinks, which I rarely have, but need to start drinking more green tea after meals to help with Iron chelation.

Will start the "Adrenal Protocol" I have composed with a help of a very smart lady probably next week. It will consists of some suplements and daily meditation 3x day. I will be doing beach/wave sounds for 20-30min each time. Interesting thing that meditation is 50% success of the protocol. All best US adrenal/cfs docs swear by it and by the main supplement in the stack as well. Will do a separate post after I'm done with it or at least into it a couple of weeks. It sounds funny that meditation but it absolutely helps so gotta be done.

The key is to get as healthy as possible before pulling the trigger and entering the dark-side once again. That is why we gotta treat the root cause and not the symptoms which gets masked by alot of shit we take, you wan't it or not, thats just how it works. Even though my TRT/HRT cupboard is stacked lol

 

[Belekas]

Been reading reddit anecdotes about HH and this post says very similar to what I'm going through atm minus the CRP as it wasn't done. So basically high ferritin, high transferrin saturantion and low transferrin with normal CRP requires genetic test for HH. Even without testing CRP I need to do the genetic testing and take the guessing out. Will start cutting food out and drinking green tea after meals. I came off TRT and noticed I have the same fucking symptoms as on TRT so that means I have something else going on that is hidden. Today woke up fatigued as fuck probably first time in a while. But yesterday had a large chocolate before bed with 50g of sugar smh I never eat that but happened. Also I'm going going back to 2g Magnesium Citrate before bed. Will see if IP6 and Curcumin might giving me it as well. So will take just Magnesium and Taurine for some days and see if I feel better. If not will cut that out and see again. If not will cut out all again and start from zero. So much fucking misery I had all these 12 months while on TRT and now I found out that it wasn't even TRT related LOL One thing for sure that my symptoms including the BP, anxiety and general overstimulation became a lot worse after me being sick with flu or whatever the fuck it was. I couldn't regain my health after that with BP spiking from 106/66 to 150/100 +- and feeling like a complete crackhead. So here we go once again only this time its the fucking Iron issue. At least I know what to attack going forward and perhaps it will solve my chest pain issues I've been having for years on and off. Probably will order 23andMe genetic test sooner then later as I can't afford to feel sub par on most days and being sensitive to pretty much every fucking thing, you name it.

Digestion is not too bad these days, I'm able to eat, just not what I want and not the amounts I need as well. With current situation feels like body wants to keep me lean and shredded. But from experience I know that at the weight I'm at now I feel like shit. Before starting TRT I was this exact weight and my TT was 12 with E2 35 and FT 0.15 FWIW. After 1.5 month of lots of food, boron, zinc, etc I managed to raise my TT to 17 and FT to 0.23 IIRC and E2 wasn't checked BUT I felt a lot better. Like very much better, if that makes sense.

So lets see what happens, will update going forward

Cheers.

 

[Belekas]

Fantastic info by Morley Robbins re Iron<>Copper dynamic and fuck me this is way more complicated then hormones IMO.

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[FunkOdyssey]

Today woke up fatigued as fuck probably first time in a while. But yesterday had a large chocolate before bed with 50g of sugar smh I never eat that but happened. Also I'm going going back to 2g Magnesium Citrate before bed. Will see if IP6 and Curcumin might giving me it as well. So will take just Magnesium and Taurine for some days and see if I feel better.

How long have you been taking the magnesium and taurine? Either of those in my experience can cause fatigue and feeling weird. They both can have sedative effects.

 

[Belekas]

How long have you been taking the magnesium and taurine? Either of those in my experience can cause fatigue and feeling weird. They both can have sedative effects.

Around a good week +-. I'll take them only before sleep for now and see what happens. Thanks for pointing it out. Will do 2g of Taurine and 2g of Magnesium Citrate before bed tonight. If nothing improves will deduct more and then cut all out and start from scratch again. My girl takes 4 gram each split in 2 doses/day and yesterday noticed sedation as well after she took 2nd dose and went to do her nightshift and her BP dipped even though she has low BP at baseline. So looks like def one or another or a combination of both.

 

[Gman86]

Around a good week +-. I'll take them only before sleep for now and see what happens. Thanks for pointing it out. Will do 2g of Taurine and 2g of Magnesium Citrate before bed tonight. If nothing improves will deduct more and then cut all out and start from scratch again. My girl takes 4 gram each split in 2 doses/day and yesterday noticed sedation as well after she took 2nd dose and went to do her nightshift and her BP dipped even though she has low BP at baseline. So looks like def one or another or a combination of both.

Ya 4g of magnesium is a lot. I take about 300mg of magnesium chloride per day. Given, it’s supposedly more absorbable than other forms of magnesium, but still. Magnesium tends to relax things. For example, it relaxes blood vessels, hence one way in which it helps lower BP. Maybe it relaxes the CNS too. I’ve heard that it can also lower cortisol. But again, u don’t want to lower cortisol too much. It’s all about balance. I would say 4g of magnesium is gonna be too much for most people. Most people take 1000mg, or less, from my understanding

 

[Belekas]

Ya 4g of magnesium is a lot. I take about 300mg of magnesium chloride per day. Given, it’s supposedly more absorbable than other forms of magnesium, but still. Magnesium tends to relax things. For example, it relaxes blood vessels, hence one way in which it helps lower BP. Maybe it relaxes the CNS too. I’ve heard that it can also lower cortisol. But again, u don’t want to lower cortisol too much. It’s all about balance. I would say 4g of magnesium is gonna be too much for most people. Most people take 1000mg, or less, from my understanding

4g Magnesium Citrate is around 700mg elemental magnesium so not a massive dose but still can be an issue for me as I have spent a long time without being able to tolerate any Mag at all. For me lowering cortisol is a good thing because I suspect I have adrenal insuficiency and my morning and mid-day cortisol are out of whack and above range. I don't take Mag chloride as its supposedly harsh on the gut for folks who have sensitive guts but might give it a try once I get good discount on liquid form like the one you taking.

 

[Gman86]

4g Magnesium Citrate is around 700mg elemental magnesium so not a massive dose but still can be an issue for me as I have spent a long time without being able to tolerate any Mag at all. For me lowering cortisol is a good thing because I suspect I have adrenal insuficiency and my morning and mid-day cortisol are out of whack and above range. I don't take Mag chloride as its supposedly harsh on the gut for folks who have sensitive guts but might give it a try once I get good discount on liquid form like the one you taking.

Oh ok, ya 700mg of elemental magnesium isn’t a crazy dose. And if u might need a way to lower cortisol, a good dose of magnesium might be a decent way to go about it. Or at least help with that. And ya Taeian has mentioned to me the chloride in magnesium chloride isn’t good for us, but it’s honestly such a small amount. At most I intake 1 tsp of the stuff per day. But most days it’s probably a little less. Haven’t noticed any gut issues from taking it

 

[Belekas]

https://open.substack.com/pub/chrismasterjohnphd/p/iron-overload-forget-what-you-thought?r=1mtow4&utm_medium=ios

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I will soon close this thread that has 48 pages and it has morphed into multiple topics. If you want to comment or reply, please start a new thread and reference (or cut and paste) the post you are replying or commenting to.

Tip for everyone: A long and complicated title will never get picked up by Google, which means this lengthy thread will help no one in the future.

 

[Belekas]

I will soon close this thread that has 48 pages and it has morphed into multiple topics. If you want to comment or reply, please start a new thread and reference (or cut and paste) the post you are replying or commenting to.

Tip for everyone: A long and complicated title will never get picked up by Google, which means this lengthy thread will help no one in the future.

I thought we are allowed to keep a journal? But if not then yeah go ahead delete my thread, my posts and everyone elses posts and can also delete my user name. Thank you and wish you well. I have helped not one and not two people from here who DMed me and shared a lot of valuable information, invested a lot of time, but I guess that doesn't matter as well.

 

[Gman86]

I thought we are allowed to keep a journal? But if not then yeah go ahead delete my thread, my posts and everyone elses posts and can also delete my user name. Thank you and wish you well. I have helped not one and not two people from here who DMed me and shared a lot of valuable information, invested a lot of time, but I guess that doesn't matter as well.

Don’t leave brother. Ur too valuable to lose. Just think of all the people u would rob of ur help going forward

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Fantastic info by Morley Robbins re Iron<>Copper dynamic and fuck me this is way more complicated then hormones IMO.

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And right on cue, here is a post on Ferritin from Chris Masterjohn

https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/you-dont-understand-serum-ferritin?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=752142&post_id=144402833&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=bdb20&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

[Belekas]

And right on cue, here is a post on Ferritin from Chris Masterjohn

https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/you-dont-understand-serum-ferritin?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=752142&post_id=144402833&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=bdb20&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

Thanks mate. I was just about to read it today actually but have spent time reading the other one. Will dive into this one after work later in the evening. To be honest this Iron disorder topic is crazy as everyone has a different philosophy. Morley talks about iron<>copper dynamics, more like copper toxicity, Chris about too much manganese, etc. So its like one can never win and honestly the one and only reasonable modus operandi is to try everything and see on your own. So genetic testing is def needed going forward. I will be doing a fasted full Iron Panel blood test next week to see if TS% has went down. If its still > 50% then I think I have a hidden issue that def needs to be investigated going forward, even though GP looks only at Ferritin, which is just stupid and sad. But having done my own blood test and paying from my pocket I will try to push her next month to be as serious as possible about this issue as I have been symptomatic for a long time.