you need to avoid seed oils (PUFA's)

[Phil Goodman]

You're straying farther afield here; this is not the thread, or even the forum, for a debate on climate change. Let's stick to the studies on the health effects of plant- and animal-based foods. Now if you can provide evidence that the results of large studies and meta-analyses on this topic have been influenced by politics then that is fair game.

Your cited study makes at least one point that I assume we'll agree on, which is that displacing meat with plant-based junk food is unlikely to be helpful.


List your specific criticisms of this study. A couple to get you started: Yes, it's observational, and there is an indication that eating more meat correlates with less concern about one's health. We'll have to dig further into the study to see if this potential source of bias was accounted for.

The statements about veering into climate change apply to you too.

It’s not too far off-topic when you say this:

I await your evidence of this vast conspiracy that favors increased consumption of plant-based foods.

The two are closely if not directly related.



As far as the study criticisms, let’s start with ann obvious one.

“Questionnaires were used to collect data every 2 to 4 years on the frequency of specific food consumption.”

There is practically zero data-validation involved. The vast majority of people can’t even track calories or meals and we’re depending on them to accurately assess red meat consumption for the previous 2-4 years? If I ask you what you had for dinner a month ago it’s very likely that you can’t tell me. Not a great way to gather data.

Secondly, they didn’t share the questionnaire so we have no idea what they asked or how they worded it. For all we know they asked exactly zero questions about carbs, or worded it in ways to make people overstate red meat intake.


We see this approach again and again in the studies, with surveys done years apart to assess diets. Yet as Gmen has stated, often times studies don’t translate to the real world.


- Argentina, ranked number 1 in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 165th in type 2 diabetes per capita.

- Zimbabwe, ranked 2nd in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 206 in type 2 diabetes.

- United States, ranked 3rd in beef consumption. Ranked 59th in type 2 diabetes per capita.

- Australia, ranked 4th in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 131st in type 2 diabetes per capita.

- Brazil, ranked 5th in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 83rd in type 2 diabetes.


The list could go on and on.




In the other side:

Pakistan is ranked 1st in type 2 diabetes per capita. Way down on the list(don’t feel like counting that many entries but know that they eat less than 1/4th the beef that Argentina(number 1) eats.

And again the list could go on and on. Feel free to look for yourself.

Beef Consumption by Country 2024

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/diabetes-rates-by-country/

As has been stated there is certainly a place for scientific studies, but increasingly they need to be scrutinized and assessed for validity because it is sadly pretty common for them to be used to push certain narratives.

 

[Gman86]

It’s not too far off-topic when you say this:



The two are closely if not directly related.



As far as the study criticisms, let’s start with ann obvious one.

“Questionnaires were used to collect data every 2 to 4 years on the frequency of specific food consumption.”

There is practically zero data-validation involved. The vast majority of people can’t even track calories or meals and we’re depending on them to accurately assess red meat consumption for the previous 2-4 years? If I ask you what you had for dinner a month ago it’s very likely that you can’t tell me. Not a great way to gather data.

Secondly, they didn’t share the questionnaire so we have no idea what they asked or how they worded it. For all we know they asked exactly zero questions about carbs, or worded it in ways to make people overstate red meat intake.


We see this approach again and again in the studies, with surveys done years apart to assess diets. Yet as Gmen has stated, often times studies don’t translate to the real world.


- Argentina, ranked number 1 in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 165th in type 2 diabetes per capita.

- Zimbabwe, ranked 2nd in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 206 in type 2 diabetes.

- United States, ranked 3rd in beef consumption. Ranked 59th in type 2 diabetes per capita.

- Australia, ranked 4th in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 131st in type 2 diabetes per capita.

- Brazil, ranked 5th in beef consumption per capita. Ranked 83rd in type 2 diabetes.


The list could go on and on.




In the other side:

Pakistan is ranked 1st in type 2 diabetes per capita. Way down on the list(don’t feel like counting that many entries but know that they eat less than 1/4th the beef that Argentina(number 1) eats.

And again the list could go on and on. Feel free to look for yourself.

Beef Consumption by Country 2024

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/diabetes-rates-by-country/

As has been stated there is certainly a place for scientific studies, but increasingly they need to be scrutinized and assessed for validity because it is sadly pretty common for them to be used to push certain narratives.

Well said. The same people that think most studies aren’t flawed/ corrupt are probably the same people that think there’s no corruption in government, or big pharma isn’t corrupt. Aka people that believe things blindly just because they’re said/ written by “well respected” sources. At the end of the day, literally all that matters is real world results, imo. I don’t understand how/ why anything else would matter. Sure, more knowledge on a subject is always better, but at the end of the day, all I care about is what people are actually experiencing, and what’s actually happening in real life, not what people/ “well respected” sources tell me should happen

 

[t_spacemonkey]

definitely look at the success real world people are having! not a fan of Bezos, but I found his quote great
“When the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it”

 

[Gman86]

definitely look at the success real world people are having! not a fan of Bezos, but I found his quote great
“When the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it”

Oh wow, this is a great quote. Thanks for sharing. And ya people can have whatever opinions on Bezos that they like, at the end of the day, the guy is clearly and extremely intelligent person, and knows what he’s talking about in his related field(s)

His quote conveys the beauty of a carnivore diet/ carnivore based diet, imo. The beauty is that it simply just works, if optimal health and avoiding chronic illness is the goal, and the more u research about it, the more it makes sense why it works so well. Opposed to something like the vegetarian diet. That’s the opposite. Long term vegetarians rarely have optimal health, and the more research u do on it, the more u realize why it has so many pitfalls, and why it doesn’t work long term. The beauty about advocating for a carnivore diet/ carnivore based diet is that all the info just reinforces why it works so well. Literally the more research u do, the more u figure out why it’s so optimal. Which is not only very interesting and cool, imo, but just reinforces that ur on the right track, which is always nice when it comes to something u follow/ believe in, in life. It’s obv always nice to have ur beliefs on something continually reinforced, opposed to figuring out down the line that u were wrong. Obv that happens, it’s part of life, and being a human, but it’s always way better when u continually are getting ur beliefs reinforced, I can’t lie lol. And not just by other people’s opinions, but by data and real life results/ experiences. U can always find people with similar opinions to reinforce ur beliefs. That holds little weight, imo, or at least for me. It’s the data and real world results that I want to be reinforced by. I could not be more confident that the carnivore diet/ a carnivore base is the optimal diet for all humans, no matter what their ancestry/ genetics. And the more research that comes out/ that I find, the more this idea gets reinforced

 

[Cataceous]

It’s not too far off-topic when you say this:

[I await your evidence of this vast conspiracy that favors increased consumption of plant-based foods.]

The two are closely if not directly related.

It's up to you to provide evidence linking these dietary studies to political taint. The fact that later controversial work invokes them is not evidence that the studies were themselves influenced.

...
“Questionnaires were used to collect data every 2 to 4 years on the frequency of specific food consumption.”

There is practically zero data-validation involved. The vast majority of people can’t even track calories or meals and we’re depending on them to accurately assess red meat consumption for the previous 2-4 years? If I ask you what you had for dinner a month ago it’s very likely that you can’t tell me. Not a great way to gather data.
...

Why not do even a minute's research before making such pronouncements? Here's one of the separate studies validating data from the questionnaire.

​

This analysis documents the validity and reproducibility of the questionnaire for measuring specific foods and beverages, as well as the large within-person variation for food intake measured by dietary records.​

Food-based validation of a dietary questionnaire: the effects of week-to-week variation in food consumption - PubMed

The reproducibility and validity of responses for 55 specific foods and beverages on a self-administered food frequency questionnaire were evaluated. One hundred and seventy three women from the Nurses' Health Study completed the questionnaire twice approximately 12 months apart and also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As it happens, if I were so inclined I could tell you exactly what I had for dinner a month ago.

...
Secondly, they didn’t share the questionnaire so we have no idea what they asked or how they worded it. For all we know they asked exactly zero questions about carbs, or worded it in ways to make people overstate red meat intake.
...

You just didn't bother to look for them. PDFs of all of them are here:

https://www.nurseshealthstudy.org/participants/questionnaires

As for your mention of per capita meat consumption vs per capita T2 diabetes, I'll wait until you're able to publish your findings in a reputable journal. In the meantime, if I want to better understand the global picture regarding diet and T2 diabetes then I'll read this:

Incident type 2 diabetes attributable to suboptimal diet in 184 countries - Nature Medicine

Modeling analysis from the Global Dietary Database estimated that 70% of new global cases of type 2 diabetes are attributable to suboptimal intake of 11 dietary factors, with substantial differences in dietary risks across world regions and nations.

www.nature.com

 

[Phil Goodman]

It's up to you to provide evidence linking these dietary studies to political taint. The fact that later controversial work invokes them is not evidence that the studies were themselves influenced.

Fair enough, you can decide for yourself what type of influence you feel there is or isn’t. I was speaking more from a general perspective because there is a very extensive history of this type of activity(using funding or other measures to influence study structures and outcomes). I’m obviously not gonna prove it to you and that’s fine, feel free to believe there is zero influence on this front if you want.

Why not do even a minute's research before making such pronouncements? Here's one of the separate studies validating data from the questionnaire.

​

This analysis documents the validity and reproducibility of the questionnaire for measuring specific foods and beverages, as well as the large within-person variation for food intake measured by dietary records.​

Food-based validation of a dietary questionnaire: the effects of week-to-week variation in food consumption - PubMed

The reproducibility and validity of responses for 55 specific foods and beverages on a self-administered food frequency questionnaire were evaluated. One hundred and seventy three women from the Nurses' Health Study completed the questionnaire twice approximately 12 months apart and also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You’re using an analysis from 1989 about a food questionnaire as evidence that the study published in 2023 validated the responses by participants?? Seems like a strange take to me, but alright.

As it happens, if I were so inclined I could tell you exactly what I had for dinner a month ago.

Well I commend you on your photographic memory, but I assure you the vast, VAST majority of people on this planet don’t share your abilities.

You just didn't bother to look for them. PDFs of all of them are here:

https://www.nurseshealthstudy.org/participants/questionnaires

Good find on the survey, so thanks for that. I honestly did do some looking but didn’t come across anything. When reviewing it, it looks poorly structured for the purposes of parsing out the impact of red meat on type 2 diabetes. For example.. here are the categories for frequency of red meat intake:

Never/less than once per month

1-3 times per month

1 times per week

2-4 times per week

5-6 times per week

1 time per day

2-4 times daily

5-6 times daily


So again people’s recollection is generally poor but even if they were reasonably accurate those are pretty big windows and can be interpreted differently. It also doesn’t account for serving size. A person could eat more in that one meal than the next person eats in all three of his. Again the amounts are covered(not like the participants would be particularly precise when recalling a meal from 8 months ago anyway). It also doesn’t parse out the different types of red meat to determine if one may have more of an impact than others.

As for your mention of per capita meat consumption vs per capita T2 diabetes, I'll wait until you're able to publish your findings in a reputable journal. In the meantime, if I want to better understand the global picture regarding diet and T2 diabetes then I'll read this:

Incident type 2 diabetes attributable to suboptimal diet in 184 countries - Nature Medicine

Modeling analysis from the Global Dietary Database estimated that 70% of new global cases of type 2 diabetes are attributable to suboptimal intake of 11 dietary factors, with substantial differences in dietary risks across world regions and nations.

www.nature.com

It isn’t meat per capita, it’s beef per capita. But if you want to ignore the real world just because I’ve never published to a journal then fine. And honestly at the end of the day what matters way more than what I believe or what you believe, is how healthy we are. I’m doing great for myself at the moment and hope you are as well. Whatever beliefs you take to get there is alright with me.

 

[Mastodont]

First off, have u looked at young people’s labs lately? Young men are having low testosterone issues in their late teens, and very commonly in their early twenties nowadays. Obv that’s a generalization, but it’s definitely evident that people in general are having hormone imbalances at much younger ages than in previous generations

And what does mainstream medicine consider “healthy cholesterol levels”? And what do most young people’s cholesterol levels look like?

Not trying to argue with u, just curious what ur basing ur statements on

Yes i know of the steep decline...but you get the point, i'd argue 20 years ago youth still looked somewhat muscular etc. Many do end up taking bloods for lipids at fairly young age, self included, never heard anyone complaining of "bad" lipids when young, you know the good bad LDL high, low hdl and high total, high triglyserides...I like that estro generation dude don't get me wrong, just not straight off buying that higher cholesterol numbers equals better hormone production he is flirting with. Could be that as we age the system needs more cholesterol for function who knows, but just saying many did have those vegan numbers as young and had well funtioning hormones..

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Oh wow, this is a great quote. Thanks for sharing. And ya people can have whatever opinions on Bezos that they like, at the end of the day, the guy is clearly and extremely intelligent person, and knows what he’s talking about in his related field(s)

His quote conveys the beauty of a carnivore diet/ carnivore based diet, imo. The beauty is that it simply just works, if optimal health and avoiding chronic illness is the goal, and the more u research about it, the more it makes sense why it works so well. Opposed to something like the vegetarian diet. That’s the opposite. Long term vegetarians rarely have optimal health, and the more research u do on it, the more u realize why it has so many pitfalls, and why it doesn’t work long term. The beauty about advocating for a carnivore diet/ carnivore based diet is that all the info just reinforces why it works so well. Literally the more research u do, the more u figure out why it’s so optimal. Which is not only very interesting and cool, imo, but just reinforces that ur on the right track, which is always nice when it comes to something u follow/ believe in, in life. It’s obv always nice to have ur beliefs on something continually reinforced, opposed to figuring out down the line that u were wrong. Obv that happens, it’s part of life, and being a human, but it’s always way better when u continually are getting ur beliefs reinforced, I can’t lie lol. And not just by other people’s opinions, but by data and real life results/ experiences. U can always find people with similar opinions to reinforce ur beliefs. That holds little weight, imo, or at least for me. It’s the data and real world results that I want to be reinforced by. I could not be more confident that the carnivore diet/ a carnivore base is the optimal diet for all humans, no matter what their ancestry/ genetics. And the more research that comes out/ that I find, the more this idea gets reinforced

yes, it comes down to what works for people. you never ever will meet a person who said....i avoided seed oils, then I added them back and my health just got so much better, everything improved. you never find a person following some general mainstream advice and coming back 'wow this really changed my life'. you never meet a person who said 'my LDL was high, but thanks god doc gave me statins, now my life is amazing, i feel so much better', etc, etc, etc. western medicine is an absolute failure, beyond putting together a broken bone or missing tooth.
on the flip side, you meet tons of people who stopped the SAD diet, went on keto, paleo, carnivore, animal based or some combination thereof and report amazing results, but going to the doc and those idiots really have to courage to tell them they are doing something bad.
on rare occasion I do go to a general doc, for blood work mainly. when I went last time (down 30lb from when they took my last weight 2y ago, but 25 down from last nov when i started tracking) the doc, really nice guy told me 'you are my best most healthy patient today', and I could tell he reluctantly told me that my LDL is high. he probably doesn't buy into it either anymore, they are just forced by the system to do this nonsense.
I listen to a lot of information, but ultimately started to go by how I feel. it took me 10+ years to figure out that carnivore+fruit/some dairy, massive full body sun exposure (fuck sunscreen), and Test/thyroid optimization gives me absolutely the best energy/libido/healthy looks/mental health I ever had. I even enjoy some cannabis and nicotine here and there with no issues. (but 0 alcohol)

 

[Gman86]

yes, it comes down to what works for people. you never ever will meet a person who said....i avoided seed oils, then I added them back and my health just got so much better, everything improved. you never find a person following some general mainstream advice and coming back 'wow this really changed my life'. you never meet a person who said 'my LDL was high, but thanks god doc gave me statins, now my life is amazing, i feel so much better', etc, etc, etc. western medicine is an absolute failure, beyond putting together a broken bone or missing tooth.
on the flip side, you meet tons of people who stopped the SAD diet, went on keto, paleo, carnivore, animal based or some combination thereof and report amazing results, but going to the doc and those idiots really have to courage to tell them they are doing something bad.
on rare occasion I do go to a general doc, for blood work mainly. when I went last time (down 30lb from when they took my last weight 2y ago, but 25 down from last nov when i started tracking) the doc, really nice guy told me 'you are my best most healthy patient today', and I could tell he reluctantly told me that my LDL is high. he probably doesn't buy into it either anymore, they are just forced by the system to do this nonsense.
I listen to a lot of information, but ultimately started to go by how I feel. it took me 10+ years to figure out that carnivore+fruit/some dairy, massive full body sun exposure (fuck sunscreen), and Test/thyroid optimization gives me absolutely the best energy/libido/healthy looks/mental health I ever had. I even enjoy some cannabis and nicotine here and there with no issues. (but 0 alcohol)

A man after my own heart lol. Love everything u just said, including how well ur doing, and the fact that through continuing to learn and trial and error things, u’ve figured out, for the most part, what works best for u, in regards to feeling and functioning at ur best. Love hearing about guys figuring things out, and feeling/ functioning optimally.

Everything u said is accurate tho. Just like nobody will ever go from a carnivore/ carnivore based diet to a vegetarian/ vegan diet and say that they feel and function better. It’s just never gonna happen. U’d be hard to simply find someone that does a carnivore/ carnivore based diet, that simply added veggies back in, that said “I feel and function better with the added veggies”.

Once u learn what’s actually healthy for the human body, and how to heal things and feel optimal, it becomes comical, and honestly sad, when u look at other people still caught up in all the things that we we’re told growing up that were healthy, that simply aren’t, and are still in the mindset of blindly trusting whatever their doctor tells them, when their doctor knows no more about diet and how to actually heal things/ feel and function optimally than any random person with a standard education. It’s just comical, and again sad, that so many people will blindly believe certain people/ publications, just because of the person’s title/ publications reputation, and couldn’t care less about putting time into doing the research for themselves, and using their own common sense/ critical thinking skills to figure things out for themselves. I’m just thankful everyday that I don’t have a mind like that. I feel for people that do

The whole cholesterol thing is honestly a joke at this point. It could not be more obv that when it comes to cholesterol and big pharma/ the medical system, the goal is profits. Aka selling statins. The original acceptable range used to be 280. Now if a doctor see’s a LDL cholesterol above 70, there’s a chance they might want to put u on a statin. This is not because doctors are corrupt, it’s because big pharma/ the medical system is corrupt, and they control what is taught in medical schools, and medical schools teach doctors how to diagnose, and prescribe. The more a doctor can diagnose, the more they can prescribe, and therefore the more profits they can bring in. It’s literally that simple. So they’re taught to fear cholesterol, especially LDL cholesterol, and therefore prescribe statins as soon as they see it get a bit above 70 or so, which pretty much everyone is going to have. Again, I don’t blame the doctors. If ur taught that an ldl above 70 is putting a person at risk for cardiovascular disease, they’re probably thinking they’re helping these patients. I’m sure it’s a mix of them thinking they’re actually helping the patient, as well as knowing that the more they prescribe, the more money they make for them and their families. And we all want more money for ourselves and our families, so I can’t fault them if money is a motivator for them. Again, I always blame the game, rarely the player. I consider myself a very good person. But if I was in politics, for example, at a high level, and my options were either go with the program and be corrupt, and make big money, or stand behind my morals, try to go against/ change the corruption, knowing I’m just gonna get the boot, u bet ur ass I’m going with the program and making that money! Lol. Sorry, bit of a tangent there lol. Just saying that people still fearing LDL is comical. LDL has a bunch of benefits. U can’t have optimal health with low LDL. It’s just not possible. I personally don’t like to see my LDL less than 200. Once u realize what LDL actually is, and what it actually does, and all the benefits that come with healthy levels of LDL, nobody in their right mind would ever want to lower it. So the fact that people still voluntarily lower it, thinking they’re improving their health, is simply comical. Can’t think of another word to describe it better.

But to wrap things up, I couldn’t agree more, and all that matters, and all that people should be focusing on, is what works. Not what doctors or studies or anyone is telling them should work, but doesn’t actually empirically work, when we look at real world results people are actually having. If there’s studies that say red meat will cause cancer/ make cancer worse in individuals that currently have cancer, but anyone that has cancer that does carnivore ends up seeing their cancer stop growing/ spreading, or remission of their cancer, what are u going to believe? Studies saying that red meat is bad for cancer, or real world results where we see people going on a carnivore diet and seeing extremely positive results, in regards to cancer? U would assume the answer would be obv to most people, but nope, there’s still many people that are going to believe what studies tell them, and ignore whatever real world results people are actually experiencing.

Anyways, sounds like u’ve figured out an amazing and sustainable balance of things that work for u, and I’m really glad to hear it. Thanks for sharing ur experience and thoughts. Really appreciate it

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Oh wow, this is a great quote. Thanks for sharing. And ya people can have whatever opinions on Bezos that they like, at the end of the day, the guy is clearly and extremely intelligent person, and knows what he’s talking about in his related field(s)

His quote conveys the beauty of a carnivore diet/ carnivore based diet, imo. The beauty is that it simply just works, if optimal health and avoiding chronic illness is the goal, and the more u research about it, the more it makes sense why it works so well. Opposed to something like the vegetarian diet. That’s the opposite. Long term vegetarians rarely have optimal health, and the more research u do on it, the more u realize why it has so many pitfalls, and why it doesn’t work long term. The beauty about advocating for a carnivore diet/ carnivore based diet is that all the info just reinforces why it works so well. Literally the more research u do, the more u figure out why it’s so optimal. Which is not only very interesting and cool, imo, but just reinforces that ur on the right track, which is always nice when it comes to something u follow/ believe in, in life. It’s obv always nice to have ur beliefs on something continually reinforced, opposed to figuring out down the line that u were wrong. Obv that happens, it’s part of life, and being a human, but it’s always way better when u continually are getting ur beliefs reinforced, I can’t lie lol. And not just by other people’s opinions, but by data and real life results/ experiences. U can always find people with similar opinions to reinforce ur beliefs. That holds little weight, imo, or at least for me. It’s the data and real world results that I want to be reinforced by. I could not be more confident that the carnivore diet/ a carnivore base is the optimal diet for all humans, no matter what their ancestry/ genetics. And the more research that comes out/ that I find, the more this idea gets reinforced

On Bezos, we know he is on Testosterone Optimization Therapy of some kind. So he has some insight into the unfortunate reality of modern living immersed in endocrine disrupting hormones.

 

[Mastodont]

yes, it comes down to what works for people. you never ever will meet a person who said....i avoided seed oils, then I added them back and my health just got so much better, everything improved. you never find a person following some general mainstream advice and coming back 'wow this really changed my life'. you never meet a person who said 'my LDL was high, but thanks god doc gave me statins, now my life is amazing, i feel so much better', etc, etc, etc. western medicine is an absolute failure, beyond putting together a broken bone or missing tooth.
on the flip side, you meet tons of people who stopped the SAD diet, went on keto, paleo, carnivore, animal based or some combination thereof and report amazing results, but going to the doc and those idiots really have to courage to tell them they are doing something bad.
on rare occasion I do go to a general doc, for blood work mainly. when I went last time (down 30lb from when they took my last weight 2y ago, but 25 down from last nov when i started tracking) the doc, really nice guy told me 'you are my best most healthy patient today', and I could tell he reluctantly told me that my LDL is high. he probably doesn't buy into it either anymore, they are just forced by the system to do this nonsense.
I listen to a lot of information, but ultimately started to go by how I feel. it took me 10+ years to figure out that carnivore+fruit/some dairy, massive full body sun exposure (fuck sunscreen), and Test/thyroid optimization gives me absolutely the best energy/libido/healthy looks/mental health I ever had. I even enjoy some cannabis and nicotine here and there with no issues. (but 0 alcohol)

What is your stance on avocados?

 

[Jim Marlowe]

What is your stance on avocados?

I realize this wasn't directed at me, but my understanding is that that fat in avocados is mostly monounsaturated fat, with about 10% polyunsaturated fat. In a person who hasn't eaten a heavy PUFA diet, it would be fine. It's on par with olive oil. If a person is looking to lower PUFA stores, then animal fat would be better followed by coconut fat.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

What is your stance on avocados?

its a fruit. i personally don't like them.

I realize this wasn't directed at me, but my understanding is that that fat in avocados is mostly monounsaturated fat, with about 10% polyunsaturated fat. In a person who hasn't eaten a heavy PUFA diet, it would be fine. It's on par with olive oil. If a person is looking to lower PUFA stores, then animal fat would be better followed by coconut fat.

pretty much! i think should not be an issue, but if you just went of a SAD diet maybe avoid this, pork/bacon/fatty chicken for a while

 

[Gman86]

its a fruit. i personally don't like them.

pretty much! i think should not be an issue, but if you just went of a SAD diet maybe avoid this, pork/bacon/fatty chicken for a while

Why avoid pork/ bacon/ fatty chicken for a bit? Are they higher in pufas than say red meat?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Why avoid pork/ bacon/ fatty chicken for a bit? Are they higher in pufas than say red meat?

for the most. bacon is like 10% pufa. its not as bad as seed oils, i think its fine to some extent. personally i don't feel very good after eating chicken or pork compared to beef. i think if you have no issues its not a problem. also currently i still need to lose like 20lb fat. bacon just won't help too much in that. whenever i deviate from beef/fruit/honey i do seem to stall

 

[Gman86]

for the most. bacon is like 10% pufa. its not as bad as seed oils, i think its fine to some extent. personally i don't feel very good after eating chicken or pork compared to beef. i think if you have no issues its not a problem. also currently i still need to lose like 20lb fat. bacon just won't help too much in that. whenever i deviate from beef/fruit/honey i do seem to stall

Ya there’s no comparison between ruminant animal meat and monogastric animal meat, especially when the monogastric animal isn’t eating its proper diet. If a monogastric animal eats crap, their meat, and especially their fat, is gonna be crappier. If ruminant animals eat crap, they can still process and ferment that crap, via the 4 chambers of their stomachs, into quality meat. And pretty much all the chicken and pork people buy is from chickens and pigs fed crap, not their natural diets. Hence why u probably don’t feel as good eating pork or chicken. I stick to beef 99.99% of the time, when it comes to my meat/ protein sources. There’s no better food on the planet than ruminant animal meat

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Ya there’s no comparison between ruminant animal meat and monogastric animal meat, especially when the monogastric animal isn’t eating its proper diet. If a monogastric animal eats crap, their meat, and especially their fat, is gonna be crappier. If ruminant animals eat crap, they can still process and ferment that crap, via the 4 chambers of their stomachs, into quality meat. And pretty much all the chicken and pork people buy is from chickens and pigs fed crap, not their natural diets. Hence why u probably don’t feel as good eating pork or chicken. I stick to beef 99.99% of the time, when it comes to my meat/ protein sources. There’s no better food on the planet than ruminant animal meat

 

[Jim Marlowe]

And if you're forced to eat pork or chicken fed a high PUFA diet, it's best to eat the lean cuts. But the fattier cuts and the skin are the best parts of those animals. It's a tragedy.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

And if you're forced to eat pork or chicken fed a high PUFA diet, it's best to eat the lean cuts. But the fattier cuts and the skin are the best parts of those animals. It's a tragedy.

100%. lean chicken isn't the worst (if you like it). but tbh i rather get a protein boost from quality whey, like hydrolyzed whey isolate.