Weight Loss - Norepinephrine/Dopamine/TRT

[StephCurryFtw]

Not sure what thread to put this under—

I have gained about 51 pounds since 2018 of mostly abdominal fat. I have noticed at a higher weight, I am not feeling as though my TRT is working long enough. I’m guessing it is getting converted into E2 and/or not hitting the receptor sites as my Free T is always high.

My ADHD med is seeming to worsen my weight loss issue because once the med wears off, I am then less motivated and less driven to exercise the remainder of the day. I take 10-60 mg Focalin daily as 10 mg tabs, so 6 doses of 10 mg Focalin.

How much of an impact does Testosterone while being a heavier body weight affect TRT for the gels for men like me with low SHBG? I can guess it is more, but I am wondering if the same is true for dopamine and norepinephrine from stimulants as well as testosterone at higher body weights with more body fat %?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

never heard of dopamine or norepinephrine having a direct effect on weight. are you on gel? i have super low shbg as well, and what works best for me is daily IM Tprop injections. your body fat percentage will definitely have an effects on e2. i lost 20lb in the last 4 months (25 more to go), and my e2 got down from 60 to 50.
stimulants can be a bitch. do they mess up your sleep? I take phentermine 2x week currently to aid with fat loss, but can't go more then that, since it is so bad on sleep.
6x dosing of focalin seems a lot too. one would think that stimulants would aid in fat loss. maybe you need to workout earlier in the day?
and last but most important diet. there is like a 1000 opinions on this, but many, including me have really good success with carnivore. what I do is carnivore+fruit/honey around workouts. you need to stop all processed stuff, especially seed oils, thing like chips, granola bars etc. they mess up the fat metabolism badly. focus on protein, saturated fat and natural carbs.

 

[StephCurryFtw]

never heard of dopamine or norepinephrine having a direct effect on weight. are you on gel? i have super low shbg as well, and what works best for me is daily IM Tprop injections. your body fat percentage will definitely have an effects on e2. i lost 20lb in the last 4 months (25 more to go), and my e2 got down from 60 to 50.
stimulants can be a bitch. do they mess up your sleep? I take phentermine 2x week currently to aid with fat loss, but can't go more then that, since it is so bad on sleep.
6x dosing of focalin seems a lot too. one would think that stimulants would aid in fat loss. maybe you need to workout earlier in the day?
and last but most important diet. there is like a 1000 opinions on this, but many, including me have really good success with carnivore. what I do is carnivore+fruit/honey around workouts. you need to stop all processed stuff, especially seed oils, thing like chips, granola bars etc. they mess up the fat metabolism badly. focus on protein, saturated fat and natural carbs.

All good thoughts. The diet stuff - I try to avoid meat when I can and limit dairy. Plant-based has always been easier on my GI tract. Meat I am generally OK with, but the sodium content tends to push my BP up too much, especially with the stimulants.

As far as TRT, I’m on the T gels and have been since 2016. I started TRT around 15 years old, but had a small test at age 14 with Axiron Gel and injections at 16. Testopels at 18-19 years old. Gels ever since 19 and I am 28 now.

I gained a substantial amount of weight after losing 45 pounds. Then, I lost 20 pounds more. Then, I gained 35 pounds back. Then, I lost 15 more pounds. Then again, I gained 45 pounds. I lost 12.5 pounds more, but gained about 35 pounds back. I struggle with keeping weight off.

I have suffered from severe OCD as well as ADHD with OCD being the most debilitating. My cortisol runs borderline high on a consistent basis. It is lower when I don’t sleep as well, yet my BP is higher when I don’t sleep as well (plus being a lot heavier than I used to be).

I tried to come down on some of my psychiatric med doses. I became mentally unstable and had to go back up on the doses. I tried this a second time a few years later and the same thing happened, except that time I was hospitalized (I’ve done two rounds in psych facilities for severe OCD).

It is like this back and forth of picking between mental wellness and physical wellness for me. ADHD improves when my TT or FT is higher. I presume FT is the bigger factor. But yeah, it is like I thrive more physically when I’m off psychotropics, but I start to get depressed off them after a point and then need the meds again which then causes increased hunger and consequently, me unable to contain myself eating too much. This cycle has gone on for 12 years now.
I have struck the best balance I can, but I’m struggling to keep the weight off I lose. I’ve been able to shave 10-15 pounds off, but it comes right back. I am prone to bloating easily with water retention in the abdomen.

I am working with a nutritionist right now, and I am not eating as many calories as before, but I’m still getting enough fiber, carbs is tough to gauge for me, unsaturated fats, and protein I try to keep around 70-80g.

With more low-intensity cardio consistently, that should help a lot. I lift twice a week, but that’s about all my body can handle at the moment. I hope to get to three days or even four a week eventually, but I’m just starting up again for the 1700th time.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I've been having mental health struggles in the past, and withdrew from some benzos (decade ago), so those things are not foreign to me. this can be really rough. I took me like 2-3 y to recover, and another 2-3 to thrive, but as of today I am doing amazing. I never though i get here. TRT definitely played a role. I encourage you to do some deeper research on the carnivore diet. there is a lady called Valerie Anne Smith who got off many meds going on a pure beef diet I believe. another person i recommend is dr Chris Palmer, he wrote a book on metabolic health and mental health. i wish I knew this earlier. good luck

 

[Systemlord]

How much of an impact does Testosterone while being a heavier body weight affect TRT for the gels for men like me with low SHBG?

The shorter half life formulations of TRT, orals and topicals typically have less side effects.

What are your TT, FT and E2 levels?

The diet stuff - I try to avoid meat when I can and limit dairy. Plant-based has always been easier on my GI tract.

That's unfortunate, because you can lose insane amounts of weight, cure obesity, chronic disease, cancer, crohn's disease, treat autism, cure arthritis on the carnivore diet.

I’m still getting enough fiber, carbs

Neither of these are essential nutrients, fat is an essential nutrient. Red meat has everything we humans require.

While you may lose weight in the short-term with this eating low fat, it may leave you feeling hungry due to low levels of fat and may put you at risk for overeating carbohydrates.

In addition, on a reduced fat diet, you may not get all the key nutrients your body needs. Your body needs dietary fat to absorb vitamins A, D, E and K. By limiting fat, your body may not get necessary nutrients it needs.

I lift twice a week, but that’s about all my body can handle at the moment.

If you want more bang for your buck, deadlift is the king of all workouts and this workout determines your overall strength!

 

[StephCurryFtw]

The shorter half life formulations of TRT, orals and topicals typically have less side effects.

What are your TT, FT and E2 levels?


That's unfortunate, because you can lose insane amounts of weight, cure obesity, chronic disease, cancer, crohn's disease, treat autism, cure arthritis on the carnivore diet.


Neither of these are essential nutrients, fat is an essential nutrient. Red meat has everything we humans require.

While you may lose weight in the short-term with this eating low fat, it may leave you feeling hungry due to low levels of fat and may put you at risk for overeating carbohydrates.

In addition, on a reduced fat diet, you may not get all the key nutrients your body needs. Your body needs dietary fat to absorb vitamins A, D, E and K. By limiting fat, your body may not get necessary nutrients it needs.


If you want more bang for your buck, deadlift is the king of all workouts and this workout determines your overall strength!

There are a lot of things I must point out in that my friend. Keep in mind, I am purely offering my take on these things from what I myself have learned and been taught. I intend zero disrespect nor any negative connotations towards anything you've mentioned. I am not "currently" on a reduced-fat diet, which has many, health detriments like you mentioned. I really don't overeat carbs by any means, but this is an area for me that fluctuates because I don't know if we are talking simple vs. complex carbs or total?

Fiber is indeed an essential component of the diet, especially with managing GI health, blood sugar regulation, and reducing cholesterol levels that eating red meats constantly will create problems with. Red meats are some of the worst meats to eat (especially on a frequent basis) when it comes to the risk of various cancers albeit being a good source for B12, complete protein source, etc. I am not trying to say you are wrong here because I am not one that sees value in arguments, but rather I just would like to share my perspective on what I have learned throughout my time. Fat is indeed a necessary requirement in the diet which you mentioned and nailed spot-on perfect. Deadlift is also a tremendous exercise! I totally agree.

How Eating Fiber Can Help You Lose Belly Fat

One type of fiber, soluble fiber, has been linked to belly fat loss. This article explains how this fiber can help you lose belly fat and avoid gaining it.

www.healthline.com

What’s the beef with red meat? - Harvard Health

Despite a recent study’s claim that consuming red and processed meat is not linked to health conditions, most global health organizations maintain that lowering consumption can reduce a p...

www.health.harvard.edu

Health effects associated with consumption of unprocessed red meat: a Burden of Proof study - Nature Medicine

Using the burden of proof analytical tool, a meta-analysis found weak or no evidence of associations between unprocessed red meat consumption and increased risk of six cardiometabolic disease and cancer outcomes.

www.nature.com

(lengthy study, but you can just read the conclusions, discussion/abstract, main points, etc. if you'd like)

 

[StephCurryFtw]

I've been having mental health struggles in the past, and withdrew from some benzos (decade ago), so those things are not foreign to me. this can be really rough. I took me like 2-3 y to recover, and another 2-3 to thrive, but as of today I am doing amazing. I never though i get here. TRT definitely played a role. I encourage you to do some deeper research on the carnivore diet. there is a lady called Valerie Anne Smith who got off many meds going on a pure beef diet I believe. another person i recommend is dr Chris Palmer, he wrote a book on metabolic health and mental health. i wish I knew this earlier. good luck

I love Chris Palmer. I've known about him for ages. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Cataceous]

...
That's unfortunate, because you can lose insane amounts of weight, cure obesity, chronic disease, cancer, crohn's disease, treat autism, cure arthritis on the carnivore diet.
...

Mostly unproven claims based on anecdotes. The subject is beaten to death on the web. A good summary line: "Champion adds that there [are] 'no known long-term health benefits' of the carnivore diet, and supporters 'seem to ignore the mountains of quality research that has proven repeatedly that plant-heavy diets are best for long-term health.'"[R] Some other arguments against the diet here.

... Red meat has everything we humans require.
...

Any long-term studies to back this up? If the carnivore diet is bad then eating only red meat is worse. "Variety is key even within a carnivore diet to ensure a comprehensive nutrient profile. Including different meats and organ meats can help ... Diversifying animal-based food sources helps mitigate the risk of nutrient deficiencies commonly associated with restrictive diets."[R]