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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
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<blockquote data-quote="pmgamer18" data-source="post: 6311" data-attributes="member: 937"><p>Yes I had the same problems with the patch at the time it just came out and my BCBS would not cover my Compounded T cream anymore. I had to put up with the rash for about 2 yrs until Androgel came out. Yet using 2 patchs / day got my levels much higher then 10 grams of androgel. On the patch I need to use an HC cream after taking the patch off so the rash would heal in 7 days before I needs to use that spot.</p><p></p><p>On Andogel I had a lot of joint and muscle pain the T from the gel was not supporting them and I was house bound for about 4 yrs on this. It was after I switched to Depo T shots that things got better for me. I have been on TRT over 33 yrs and seeing Dr.'s not up on this had me suffering for about 20 yrs not feeling 100%.</p><p></p><p>If you have a Thyroid problem it can make your skin thicker and the patch, creams and or gels don't get through the skin and you can't get good levels.</p><p></p><p>Here is a cut and paste from a post by Dr. M about this.</p><p>===============================================</p><table class='post-table class: tborder, width: 100%, align: center' style='width: 100%'><tr><td ><p><br /> [TD="class: thead"]</p></td><img src="https://www.excelmale.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif" class="bbImage" alt="" data-url="https://www.excelmale.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif" style="" /><td ><p>06-16-2009, 12:16 AM [/TD]<br /> <br /> [TD="class: thead, align: right"] #</p></td><td ><p>[/TD]</p></td></tr><tr><td ><p><br /> [TD="class: alt2, width: 175"]</p></td><td ><p><br /> <br /> <br /> Physician, Psychiatrist<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Join Date: Mar 2009<br /> <br /> Location: Carmel, California<br /> <br /> Posts: 712 <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [/TD]<br /> <br /> [TD="class: alt1"]</p></td><img src="https://www.excelmale.com/images/icons/icon1.gif" class="bbImage" alt="" data-url="https://www.excelmale.com/images/icons/icon1.gif" style="" /><strong>Transdermal Hormone Replacement</strong><td ><p><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Quote:<br /></p></td><td ><p><br /> Ideally, for hormone replacement <br /> therapy, the transdermally based hormone is transferred into the fat layer of <br /> the skin. From there, the hormone can be released gradually into the <br /> bloodstream, producing stable level.<br /> <br /> Alcohol-based gels are more useful <br /> for hormone replacement since they allow the hormone to be absorbed into the <br /> skin fat and to be slowly released into the blood stream.<br /> <br /> Oil-based <br /> transdermal gels or creams - such as the PLO gels - are good for rapidly <br /> introducing substances into the system. They aren't as useful for hormone <br /> replacement therapy because they cause the hormone to bypass the skin fat and <br /> allow the hormone to directly go into the blood stream. This causes a large peak <br /> and a rapid fall in blood levels.<br /> <br /> Both alcohol-based and oil-based gels <br /> or creams will result in good absorption generally. They generally result in <br /> predictable blood levels of hormones and medications. If the blood level does <br /> not go up, then it is not being absorbed. Thus if a testosterone transdermal <br /> does not result in an appreciable increase in testosterone it is not well <br /> absorbed.<br /> <br /> Some people will have difficult absorbing a transdermal <br /> preparation. For example, people with hypothyroidism, can develop mxedema. This <br /> is a thickening of the skin due to the accumulation of mucin - a glue that holds <br /> cells together. This prevents transdermal absorption. In my patients, if a <br /> person develops lower thyroid hormone levels from either transdermal <br /> testosterone or estradiol, testosterone and estradiol levels fall. When I <br /> address thyroid hormone, testosterone and estradiol will again be abssorbed and <br /> levels rise. Other reasons for non-absorption include possible ethnic <br /> differences or genetic differences in skin such as oilier skin, etc. <br /> <br /> One <br /> other reason a hormone level does not go up is that the dose used is too low. <br /> For example, many patients are given one 5 gram packet of Androgel to use. This <br /> is too low for many men. Since there is negative feedback controlling <br /> testosterone production, at a certain dose, the dose is too low to make up for <br /> the loss of one's testicular testosterone production, when exogenous <br /> testosterone is added. Testosterone level actually will decrease when only 1 <br /> 5-gram pack is used in many men. The percentage of men where testosterone will <br /> be low rather than high decreases when two 5-gram packs of Androgel are used. <br /> This would be the starting dose I would use. In these men, there is evidence of <br /> absorption - such as DHT (dihydrotestosterone) levels going up. But testosterone <br /> is either the same or LOWER. In these men, testosterone in Androgel IS absorbed. <br /> But the dose is too low.<br /> <br /> <br /> __________________<br /> Romeo B. Mariano, MD, physician, psychiatrist<br /> Any <br /> information provided on</p></td><td ><p>is for informational purposes only, is <br /> not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship, is not <br /> exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment, and will change as <br /> knowledge progresses. Seek the advice of your physician or other qualified <br /> health provider before undertaking any diet, exercise, supplement, medical, or <br /> other health program. <br /> [/TD]</p></td></tr></table>Today I do Test C shots 80 mgs E3D subQ and I do 250 IU's of HCG to keep my testis working the day before my Test C shot E3D and I take Aromasin to keep my Estradiol down. I find this recipe works great for me I eat up the T as fast as I can take it and my SHBG is on the lower side at about 15 to 20.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pmgamer18, post: 6311, member: 937"] Yes I had the same problems with the patch at the time it just came out and my BCBS would not cover my Compounded T cream anymore. I had to put up with the rash for about 2 yrs until Androgel came out. Yet using 2 patchs / day got my levels much higher then 10 grams of androgel. On the patch I need to use an HC cream after taking the patch off so the rash would heal in 7 days before I needs to use that spot. On Andogel I had a lot of joint and muscle pain the T from the gel was not supporting them and I was house bound for about 4 yrs on this. It was after I switched to Depo T shots that things got better for me. I have been on TRT over 33 yrs and seeing Dr.'s not up on this had me suffering for about 20 yrs not feeling 100%. If you have a Thyroid problem it can make your skin thicker and the patch, creams and or gels don't get through the skin and you can't get good levels. Here is a cut and paste from a post by Dr. M about this. =============================================== [TABLE="class: tborder, width: 100%, align: center"] [TR] [TD="class: thead"][IMG]https://www.excelmale.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif[/IMG] 06-16-2009, 12:16 AM [/TD] [TD="class: thead, align: right"] #[URL="http://www.excelmale.com/showpost.php?p=134&postcount=5"][B]5[/B][/URL] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: alt2, width: 175"] [URL="http://www.excelmale.com/member.php?u=2"][B][COLOR=#38538b]DrMariano[/COLOR][/B][/URL] Physician, Psychiatrist Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Carmel, California Posts: 712 [/TD] [TD="class: alt1"] [IMG]https://www.excelmale.com/images/icons/icon1.gif[/IMG] [B]Transdermal Hormone Replacement[/B] [HR][/HR] Quote: [TABLE="width: 100%"] [TR] [TD="class: alt2"] Originally Posted by [B]chaos[/B] [URL="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?p=131#post131"][IMG]https://www.excelmale.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL] [I]What is your opinion as to the steadiest release from a transdermal. I used them prior to injectibles, but my testosterone never increased, just DHT. I used androgel and a 10% PLO. People on the boards told me I didn't absorb (since T didn't increase), but my doc said the increase in DHT was proof something absorbed, though he was uncertain as to why all of it seemed to go to DHT. Speaking to your comment, he postulated I absorbed it "in one shot" as opposed to a steady release, so I therefore had a spike in DHT, similar to the spike the day after an IM injection.[/I] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Ideally, for hormone replacement therapy, the transdermally based hormone is transferred into the fat layer of the skin. From there, the hormone can be released gradually into the bloodstream, producing stable level. Alcohol-based gels are more useful for hormone replacement since they allow the hormone to be absorbed into the skin fat and to be slowly released into the blood stream. Oil-based transdermal gels or creams - such as the PLO gels - are good for rapidly introducing substances into the system. They aren't as useful for hormone replacement therapy because they cause the hormone to bypass the skin fat and allow the hormone to directly go into the blood stream. This causes a large peak and a rapid fall in blood levels. Both alcohol-based and oil-based gels or creams will result in good absorption generally. They generally result in predictable blood levels of hormones and medications. If the blood level does not go up, then it is not being absorbed. Thus if a testosterone transdermal does not result in an appreciable increase in testosterone it is not well absorbed. Some people will have difficult absorbing a transdermal preparation. For example, people with hypothyroidism, can develop mxedema. This is a thickening of the skin due to the accumulation of mucin - a glue that holds cells together. This prevents transdermal absorption. In my patients, if a person develops lower thyroid hormone levels from either transdermal testosterone or estradiol, testosterone and estradiol levels fall. When I address thyroid hormone, testosterone and estradiol will again be abssorbed and levels rise. Other reasons for non-absorption include possible ethnic differences or genetic differences in skin such as oilier skin, etc. One other reason a hormone level does not go up is that the dose used is too low. For example, many patients are given one 5 gram packet of Androgel to use. This is too low for many men. Since there is negative feedback controlling testosterone production, at a certain dose, the dose is too low to make up for the loss of one's testicular testosterone production, when exogenous testosterone is added. Testosterone level actually will decrease when only 1 5-gram pack is used in many men. The percentage of men where testosterone will be low rather than high decreases when two 5-gram packs of Androgel are used. This would be the starting dose I would use. In these men, there is evidence of absorption - such as DHT (dihydrotestosterone) levels going up. But testosterone is either the same or LOWER. In these men, testosterone in Androgel IS absorbed. But the dose is too low. __________________ Romeo B. Mariano, MD, physician, psychiatrist Any information provided on [URL="http://www.definitivemind.com/"][B][COLOR=#38538b]www.definitivemind.com[/COLOR][/B][/URL] is for informational purposes only, is not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship, is not exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment, and will change as knowledge progresses. Seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider before undertaking any diet, exercise, supplement, medical, or other health program. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Today I do Test C shots 80 mgs E3D subQ and I do 250 IU's of HCG to keep my testis working the day before my Test C shot E3D and I take Aromasin to keep my Estradiol down. I find this recipe works great for me I eat up the T as fast as I can take it and my SHBG is on the lower side at about 15 to 20. [/QUOTE]
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