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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Blood Test Discussion
My TRT Odyssey: Lab Results and More
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<blockquote data-quote="FunkOdyssey" data-source="post: 272234" data-attributes="member: 44064"><p>Thank you madman for taking the time to give me some sage advice. Much appreciated.</p><p></p><p>Assuming my response is proportional to dose, increasing from 140 to 175 mg should only move my free T from 17 to 21 ng/dL. With EOD SC injections, that trough value shouldn't be too far off my average value either. My friend hits 27 ng/dL trough with 160 mg a week EOD, so I think I'm just a below average responder. According to my calculations, I would predict needing a dose of 222 mg weekly (!!) to reach my buddy's 27 ng/dL trough free T on this EOD protocol.</p><p></p><p>35 mg a week sounds like a big jump, but does 4 ng/dL free T sound like a huge jump? I don't think it's too crazy and neither did Ben at Defy. Yes, my total T is going to be high, but I have high SHBG so I ignore total T. I just recorded a robust total T of 606 ng/dL with 5 ng/dL free T -- in my opinion, Total T is worthless for this process of diagnosing and treating low T. I probably wouldn't even order it if it wasn't bundled with the Free T test. Total T is the noise that distracts from the signal.</p><p></p><p>About the range of Free T that different practitioners prefer, I have been following this TRT space closely for two years now and I still don't know who to believe. We have the seeming voices of reason that advocate for staying within reference ranges and we have the TOT practitioners who have collectively many, many thousands of men that by their account are thriving in supraphysiologic territory. You know who they are and what ranges they like, but just as an example, I took the data highpull from t-nation posted on his patients' labs and calculated a simple average of the values. Here they are, keeping in mind these are a mix of E3.5D and E7D protocols when you see these trough values:</p><p></p><p>Total T: 1029 ng/dL</p><p>Free T (EqD): 242 pg/mL</p><p>SHBG: 25 nmol/L</p><p>Free T (calc): 29 ng/dL</p><p>E2: 57 pg/mL</p><p></p><p>Highpull states that these men are "all happy with their results" and I believe him, just like I believe Dave Lee and others when they share details of their TRT practices. I also believe the men who have negative side effects at high doses and fix all their woes by reducing their dose to 100 mg or less weekly.</p><p></p><p>It is difficult to reconcile these two camps by reading and analysis alone or I would have by now. I am going to have to experience these things for myself, and for me, I think that looks like gradually raising the dose until things start getting worse. I have literally no side effects right now as I stated earlier, so naturally, I want to explore in the direction of more.</p><p></p><p>Your point about the benefits of TRT taking 3-6 months to manifest is well taken. I am not so much trying to rush that process as I am trying to reach free T levels that will be maximally beneficial and discovering what levels and doses I can comfortably tolerate. At what point would it start negatively affecting things like sleep, BP, heart rate, skin, etc? There's only one way to find out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FunkOdyssey, post: 272234, member: 44064"] Thank you madman for taking the time to give me some sage advice. Much appreciated. Assuming my response is proportional to dose, increasing from 140 to 175 mg should only move my free T from 17 to 21 ng/dL. With EOD SC injections, that trough value shouldn't be too far off my average value either. My friend hits 27 ng/dL trough with 160 mg a week EOD, so I think I'm just a below average responder. According to my calculations, I would predict needing a dose of 222 mg weekly (!!) to reach my buddy's 27 ng/dL trough free T on this EOD protocol. 35 mg a week sounds like a big jump, but does 4 ng/dL free T sound like a huge jump? I don't think it's too crazy and neither did Ben at Defy. Yes, my total T is going to be high, but I have high SHBG so I ignore total T. I just recorded a robust total T of 606 ng/dL with 5 ng/dL free T -- in my opinion, Total T is worthless for this process of diagnosing and treating low T. I probably wouldn't even order it if it wasn't bundled with the Free T test. Total T is the noise that distracts from the signal. About the range of Free T that different practitioners prefer, I have been following this TRT space closely for two years now and I still don't know who to believe. We have the seeming voices of reason that advocate for staying within reference ranges and we have the TOT practitioners who have collectively many, many thousands of men that by their account are thriving in supraphysiologic territory. You know who they are and what ranges they like, but just as an example, I took the data highpull from t-nation posted on his patients' labs and calculated a simple average of the values. Here they are, keeping in mind these are a mix of E3.5D and E7D protocols when you see these trough values: Total T: 1029 ng/dL Free T (EqD): 242 pg/mL SHBG: 25 nmol/L Free T (calc): 29 ng/dL E2: 57 pg/mL Highpull states that these men are "all happy with their results" and I believe him, just like I believe Dave Lee and others when they share details of their TRT practices. I also believe the men who have negative side effects at high doses and fix all their woes by reducing their dose to 100 mg or less weekly. It is difficult to reconcile these two camps by reading and analysis alone or I would have by now. I am going to have to experience these things for myself, and for me, I think that looks like gradually raising the dose until things start getting worse. I have literally no side effects right now as I stated earlier, so naturally, I want to explore in the direction of more. Your point about the benefits of TRT taking 3-6 months to manifest is well taken. I am not so much trying to rush that process as I am trying to reach free T levels that will be maximally beneficial and discovering what levels and doses I can comfortably tolerate. At what point would it start negatively affecting things like sleep, BP, heart rate, skin, etc? There's only one way to find out. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Blood Test Discussion
My TRT Odyssey: Lab Results and More
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