depressive mood on trt

Hey guys,

Anyone know what can cause this. I have had some ups and downs on TRT, but as a whole my depression seemed to be gone. I had been on this protocol for most of February, and had been feeling great:

60mg+250iu HCG e3d

My number on my trough day were:

949 TT
32.5 free T
29 E2 ultrasensitive

Everything was going great, but then I slowly started to experience some morning anxiety, and heart palps. So I backed off the T a bit and went down to 50mg E3D and 125 IU HCG daily(subQ)

Now I just feel very blah, morning wood is gone etc etc.

Just wondering what other bloodwork I should order through dr saya etc to try and figure all this out.

Thanks!

Could lowering my dose, cause me to feel crappy? I also feel very spaced out at times... idk tough to describe.

Thanks for any feedback I can post blood results that I do have if needed.

SHBG?

Need a complete Thyroid panel as well.

Could be many things so a good blood work up is in order.

SHBG is 15. I will get the thyroid panel. Damn, I was happy too, because everything seemed to be perfect, for about 2 weeks.

I had a pretty full one done by Dr saya. What info, besides thyroid would you want? My tsh is 0.8

Dallas101346, sorry you are feeling a bit anxious and not as well as you used to.


I wish mood could be modulated just by testosterone and estradiol. Life would be simple.

The main factor that affects my mood (while having good T and E2 values) is sleep quality and when I go to bed. If I go to be after 10:30 pm and/or have less than 7 hours of sleep, my mood and coping skills worsen.

Question : When you have morning anxiety, what are the thoughts or feelings that come through your mind? Or do just have anxiety without any specific worrisome thoughts? Did you sleep well?

Whoever expects great mood most days (after fine tuning TRT) is really up for disappointment.

Having said that, I know that some men may feel anxious when using higher TRT or HCG doses. Your T and HCG doses are pretty conservative, though.

Dallas101346, how can you tell if you are using 50 or 60 mg of TRT? Are you using a .5 cc insulin syringe to be able to see the difference in the syringe? Thanks

Nelson Vergel said:

Dallas101346, sorry you are feeling a bit anxious and not as well as you used to.


I wish mood could be modulated just by testosterone and estradiol. Life would be simple.

The main factor that affects my mood (while having good T and E2 values) is sleep quality and when I go to bed. If I go to be after 10:30 pm and/or have less than 7 hours of sleep, my mood and coping skills worsen.

Question : When you have morning anxiety, what are the thoughts or feelings that come through your mind? Or do just have anxiety without any specific worrisome thoughts? Did you sleep well?

Whoever expects great mood most days (after fine tuning TRT) is really up for disappointment.

Having said that, I know that some men may feel anxious when using higher TRT or HCG doses. Your T and HCG doses are pretty conservative, though.

Dallas101346, how can you tell if you are using 50 or 60 mg of TRT? Are you using a .5 cc insulin syringe to be able to see the difference in the syringe? Thanks

Click to expand...

Nelson, Thanks for the reply.

I use the same protocol you used with the HCG and test C, intramuscular in the same syringe. The 60mg E3d and 250IU HCG was working very well, then I woke up one morning anxious, and the anxiousness got a bit worse. I thought it was E2 so I lowered my dose etc..

There are no thoughts in my head when I am anxious, so I do not know what causes it. Also, my DHEA is around 500, so Dr saya assured me I don't have adrenal fatigue(as of now) I have had many ups and downs on TRT, so let me give you the run down.

July 10th: first IM injection
July 17th second IM injection

I started reading about subQ, so I went on sub Q... but for some reason I couldnt get my T that high without converting to E2. I went from early august until the end of October doing subQ. In the beginning of November I switched to 120mg intramuscular 1 time a week, and I felt pretty damn good. In early December I switched to 2x a week 50mg E3.5D. I had a crash in December, and lost a lot of penile sensitivity as well as just felt crappy. So out of frustration I came off TRT. On 1/6 my T and E levels were 348/9 respectively. On 1.9 I began 60mg e3.5d with 250IU hcg. Around early February I switched to E3D. In mid February I felt damn near perfect. Erections were insane, morning wood, libido, all was perfect. Then slowly the morning anxiety came in, and now I feel blah again after dropping to 50mg E3D with 125 HCG IU.

I realize I have had many protocol changes, but it is very hard to stick to a protocol with side effects that simply suck.

Thanks for the help btw I appreciate when you take time to respond.

How much DHEA are you taking? I can't take DHEA due to anxiety. Yours is super high.

This study contradicts my observation on DHEA and insteads links cortisol with morning anxiety in men taking 50 mg/day DHEA


"A correlational analysis of baseline behavioural data with hormonal data, controlling for age, revealed that higher morning DHEA was assocated with lower confusion (r=−0.33; P=0.04), while higher evening DHEA was associated with lower anxiety (r=−0.35; P=0.03) and lower current negative mood in the morning (r=−0.37; P=0.03). Conversely, higher morning cortisol and a morning cortisol/DHEA ratio were assocated with higher anxiety (r=0.35; P=0.03), (r=0.46; P=0.004), general mood disturbance (r=0.32; P=0.046), (r=0.32; P=0.04) and higher current negative mood in the evening (r=0.37; P=0.03), (r=0.38; P=0.03). A higher morning cortisol/DHEA ratio was also associated with higher confusion (r=0.39; P=0.01) and lower visuo-spatial memory performance (r=−0.39; P=0.01). "

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453001000142

Not taking any

Mine is just naturally high. It was at the top end of the range, not much I can do about it. It was high eeven before trt

Then I wonder why the anxiety came on randomly. I'm not stressed.... I wonder if is too high free test.

dallas101346 said:

Could lowering my dose, cause me to feel crappy? I also feel very spaced out at times... idk tough to describe.

Thanks for any feedback I can post blood results that I do have if needed.

Click to expand...

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing right now as well.

Could very well be...

Are you going through this as well?

Gene Devine said:

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing right now as well.

Could very well be...

Click to expand...

I suppose that going from 600 to 900 makes you feel better, then perhaps going from 900 to 600 makes you feel a bit worse for a short time, not sure.

Nelson Vergel said:

How much DHEA are you taking? I can't take DHEA due to anxiety. Yours is super high.

This study contradicts my observation on DHEA and insteads links cortisol with morning anxiety in men taking 50 mg/day DHEA


"A correlational analysis of baseline behavioural data with hormonal data, controlling for age, revealed that higher morning DHEA was assocated with lower confusion (r=−0.33; P=0.04), while higher evening DHEA was associated with lower anxiety (r=−0.35; P=0.03) and lower current negative mood in the morning (r=−0.37; P=0.03). Conversely, higher morning cortisol and a morning cortisol/DHEA ratio were assocated with higher anxiety (r=0.35; P=0.03), (r=0.46; P=0.004), general mood disturbance (r=0.32; P=0.046), (r=0.32; P=0.04) and higher current negative mood in the evening (r=0.37; P=0.03), (r=0.38; P=0.03). A higher morning cortisol/DHEA ratio was also associated with higher confusion (r=0.39; P=0.01) and lower visuo-spatial memory performance (r=−0.39; P=0.01). "

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453001000142

Click to expand...

Well along with the slight depression, there is now insomnia. I have woken up every night after about 4 hours of sleep, and cannot get back to sleep..... I have never had this happen, but if it doesn't change I am not sure what I will do.... what can randomly cause this. Should I stop trt? I don't get it.

Dallas, do you drink alcohol?? I have found if I have a couple glasses of wine or a few beers before bed I will wake up in the middle of the night, and cant get back to sleep. I don't fight it, I get up grab my laptop and write. I have gotten some amazing ideas that I wouldn't have gotten had I stayed in bed. Now I look forward to it from time to time.... Normally I wake at 4am anyhow...
As for the depression, talk to your Doc. Depression is not anything to be embarrassed to talk about. PM me if you want to talk...
Steve

No I don't drink alcohol. I just dont get how this happened so suddenly... I was fine 2 weeks ago... Might ask dr. saya about a restart protocol. idk

dallas, did you have any anxiety or heart palpitations before TRT?

Get a 4 panel cortisol saliva test done. I'm going through adrenal fatigue rightnow and your symptoms sound similar.

This cleared up btw. Allowing arimidex to get out of my system took care of it.