My short-term Dbol-only experiment. Or, “How I learned to stop worrying and love oral anabolics”. Part-1

• 57 y/o life time lifter
• TRT for the past 5 1/2 years
• Normal Protocol is 80 mg Test, 120 nandrolone weekly plus HCG

• 10 mg of Dbol daily.
• 2 shots of HCG per week @500 IUs each shot to maintain some base endogenous testosterone
• 10 mg / day Cardarine daily
• NO testosterone (stopped pinning TRT 1 week prior to starting the Dbol)
• 1/4 of a 25 mg aromasin pill weekly
• Stopped nandrolone 3 weeks prior
• No peptides
• 1,000 mg milk thistle daily
• Run the above for 3 weeks, off for 3 weeks, repeat.

• I did a bunch of research on short term cycles and discovered that this was the protocol Ben Johnson (the Canadian Olympic sprinter that got busted for roofs in 1989) used for several months leading up to the Olympics. He then switched compounds to Winstrol following the same approach.
• Found other reports from anabolic steroid users who advocate short term cycles.
• Also I reviewed clinical studies that showed 90% of gains from steroid cycles were achieved in the first 6 weeks. No need for long term cycles.
• I am an older lifter looking for some gains and not getting the results I wanted with Test, Nandrolone and Primo (all in moderate doses (200-250 mg/ week total androgens)
• I ran Dbol in college over 35 years ago and to date it was the best compound I ever ran. I was wondering if I could get some of that magic back with less of a dose.

• My results exceeded my expectations.
• On the gains side, I gained 5 lbs, arms went up 1/2 inch, thighs 1/2 inch, shoulders and traps full, looking very vascular with a V tapper.
• Morning woods every day (I never had them every day even on testosterone)
• Libido strong
• Slept like a baby. Most vivid dreams ever - even more than GHRP
• Great energy.
• Best part: the old Dbol feel good effect was in full swing. You may have heard this referred to as “God mode” - you are just so amped mentally and ready for anything. I can’t explain it.
• One side: with the above “feel good” side effect comes some difficulty concentrating. It’s just like I remembered from college. You spend a lot of time daydreaming, iterating, thinking about the future. This started the last week.
• BP raised a bit. I was already on Losartan which kept,my BP 130/75 when I ran nandrolone or 120/70 when just Testosterone- with Dbol only it was mid 130s over 75-79 so definitely a bump. I will be adding some Telmisartan as well - maybe 25 mg and adjust as needed.
• Another benefit was I was not waking up in the middle of the night to pee since dropping the Testosterone.

JimGainz said:

Hey guys. I am nearing the completion of a 3 week Dbol as TRT experiment and wanted to post the protocol and results. I will follow up with the next phase with bloodwork later this Spring.

About me:

• 57 y/o life time lifter
• TRT for the past 5 1/2 years
• Normal Protocol is 80 mg Test, 120 nandrolone weekly plus HCG

Dbol-only protocol.

• 10 mg of Dbol daily.
• 2 shots of HCG per week @500 IUs each shot to maintain some base endogenous testosterone
• 10 mg / day Cardarine daily
• NO testosterone (stopped pinning TRT 1 week prior to starting the Dbol)
• 1/4 of a 25 mg aromasin pill weekly
• Stopped nandrolone 3 weeks prior
• No peptides
• 1,000 mg milk thistle daily
• Run the above for 3 weeks, off for 3 weeks, repeat.

Why this protocol:

• I did a bunch of research on short term cycles and discovered that this was the protocol Ben Johnson (the Canadian Olympic sprinter that got busted for roofs in 1989) used for several months leading up to the Olympics. He then switched compounds to Winstrol following the same approach.
• Found other reports from anabolic steroid users who advocate short term cycles.
• Also I reviewed clinical studies that showed 90% of gains from steroid cycles were achieved in the first 6 weeks. No need for long term cycles.
• I am an older lifter looking for some gains and not getting the results I wanted with Test, Nandrolone and Primo (all in moderate doses (200-250 mg/ week total androgens)
• I ran Dbol in college over 35 years ago and to date it was the best compound I ever ran. I was wondering if I could get some of that magic back with less of a dose.

Results.

• My results exceeded my expectations.
• On the gains side, I gained 5 lbs, arms went up 1/2 inch, thighs 1/2 inch, shoulders and traps full, looking very vascular with a V tapper.
• Morning woods every day (I never had them every day even on testosterone)
• Libido strong
• Slept like a baby. Most vivid dreams ever - even more than GHRP
• Great energy.
• Best part: the old Dbol feel good effect was in full swing. You may have heard this referred to as “God mode” - you are just so amped mentally and ready for anything. I can’t explain it.
• One side: with the above “feel good” side effect comes some difficulty concentrating. It’s just like I remembered from college. You spend a lot of time daydreaming, iterating, thinking about the future. This started the last week.
• BP raised a bit. I was already on Losartan which kept,my BP 130/75 when I ran nandrolone or 120/70 when just Testosterone- with Dbol only it was mid 130s over 75-79 so definitely a bump. I will be adding some Telmisartan as well - maybe 25 mg and adjust as needed.
• Another benefit was I was not waking up in the middle of the night to pee since dropping the Testosterone.

What’s Next.

I am ending my 3 week run on January 31st. At that time, I will drop Dbol and Cardarine and either go back to low dose Test with Nandrolone OR, just run nandrolone solo at a higher dose for 4-6 weeks. (I’ve been off for over a month and my joints are really sore. I don’t think I can wait another 5 weeks to complete the next phase without it)

Will be off Dbol for 3 weeks and then introduce it again with no test for 2-3 weeks, then off (back on TRT) and get blood work done in April. I want to be off Dbol at least a month prior to bloods to make sure things come back to normal.

I will post the phase 2 results and bloodwork mid April.

Stay tuned and post or PM me with any questions.

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madman said:

First off what does methandrostanonone have to do with testosterone therapy?

This is a men's health/HRT forum.

You should know better!

This is nonsense you should be posting on those other bum*** forums (bum-nation, facepalm, I just don't geddit) littered on the internet.

You know the ones loaded with all those blast n cruizers sporting those chemically enhanced fake builds that all those poor young chaps idolize!

Real men, they say LMFAO!

Other than nandrolone which is used in therapeutic doses for relief/improvement of joint pain or oxandrolone which may be prescribed for the same reason as both are legal compounds methandrostenolone let alone any other AAS is not.

Unfortunately, the FDA recently pulled oxandrolone off the market.

The only way one obtains methandrostenolone is through a UGL source.

No doctor is legally prescribing such!

As you should very well know methandrostenolone could never replace testosterone let alone it is not something that one would use long-term due to the compound being c-17 alpha alkylated which is known to stress the liver.

The use of AAS 17α-alkylated orals such as stanozolol, oxandrolone, methyltestosterone, methandrostenolone, oxymetholone, and fluoxymesterone are notorious for driving down HDL, increasing LDL, stressing the liver and hammering down SHBG.

The c-17 alpha-alkylated orals put a greater strain on the cardiovascular system and are also known to be liver-toxic when abused.

Either way one still needs to be mindful of the time on/off which will be magnified over the years.

Even then the dose/duration of use will play a big role.

Highly doubtful you are going to run into any serious liver damage from using therapeutic does (oxandrolone/stanazolol) let alone low doses of any other c-17 alpha alkylated orals from short-term use.

No AAS would be a testosterone substitution.

The main reason testosterone is used for replacement therapy over nandrolone let alone any other AAS is that testosterone drugs provide a hormone that is already produced in the body.

More importantly, its metabolites estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterone-beneficial effects on (cardiovascular health, brain health, libido, erectile function, bone health, tendon health, immune system, lipids, and body composition).


*Natural testosterone is viewed as the best androgen for substitution in hypogonadal men. The reason behind the selection is that testosterone can be converted to DHT and E2, thus developing the full spectrum of testosterone activities in long-term substitution

*Preparations of native testosterone or its esters (aromatizable T) should be used for TTh




Hate to burst your bubble but BJ never relied solely on a 3 week methadrostenolone protocol throughout his career.

When he first started dabbling with AAS in the early 80s low dose short-term cycles of T (TP/TS) and methandrostenolone were used.

He stopped using methandrostenolone by the mid-80s and the go-to oral which was used in a short-term cyclic fashion for years was stanozolol which was supposedly replaced by Furazabol.

Low dose test (TP/TS) was also a staple throughout his and many of the other track and field athletes.

Strength/speed/muscular density and recovery was the goal, not excess muscle mass which would have had a negative effect on the athlete's performance.

Short-term stints with T/AAS along with a proper diet/training protocol would accomplish this.

The goal of such athletes was not to bulk up.

Methandrostenolone and oxymetholone would be considered mass-building steroids.

Stanozolol and oxandrolone let alone fluoxymesterone would be considered strength steroids and preferred for improving lean mass or athletic performance.

These compounds would be staples in strength/speed sports.

To take full advantage of T/AAS anabolic potential when it comes to gaining muscle mass one needs to achieve levels well into the supra-physiological range 24/7 in a cyclic fashion typically 6-12 weeks in length.

Depending on the T/AAS used 6-12 week cycles are common.

The majority of the gains are made in the first 6-8 weeks.

To obtain such one would need to use any of the oral AAS dosed daily or spread throughout the day due to the short half-life (PKs) for at least 6 weeks to reap the full benefits.

Unesterified injectables such as test suspension would be dosed daily due to the half-life (PK) for 6-8 weeks.

Short-acting esterified TP would be dosed daily or EOD due to the half-life (PK) for 6-8 weeks.

Esterified medium-acting TC/TE would be dosed once weekly or twice weekly due to the half-life (PK) for 8-12 weeks.

Think of how long it takes just to reach steady-state (4-6 weeks) when using the medium-acting esters.

No way in hell you are reaping the full anabolic potential of T/AAS using 3-week cycles let alone using low doses even when using the orals.

Not if packing on muscle mass is your goal.

Put money on it that 5 lbs you put on is not purely dry gains (actin/myosin).

Even cycling a low dose of 10mg daily for 3-week stints is not going to result in throwing on a lot of mass.

15-30mg daily for 6 weeks is where it's at.

Even then I would not waste my time with the methandrostenolone if gaining mass was my goal.

Would up the ND dose any day to put on some quality muscle before f**king with low dose 3-week stints of methandrostenolone!

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NomDePlume said:

With apologies for perhaps being off topic, I'm interested in your inclusion and feelings about Cardarine, Jim.

I'm an aging endurance athlete and have positive prior experience with Stenabolic, which is said to be fairly similar in effects but is much shorter acting.

I've always been leery of Cardarine because of the windsor rat study, even knowing the findings likely do not correlate to human levels of application.

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JimGainz said:

I have been tracking this whole cardarine thing since 2017 and have been reluctant to pull the switch because of that cancer scare. First of all the doses that were used in those rats were actually close to human levels. The human equivalent dose ranges from about 45 mg to 75 mg which is not that far off from what a lot of bodybuilders take which is around 25 mg. That being said, based on some other research and tracking things on forums, looking at the clinical trials, there has never been a reported side effect in humans. In fact, to the contrary, short term, lower doses seem to provide enormous benefits in lipid modulation as well as energy.

I was only taking 10 mg per day and I noticed a difference in a few days in terms of overall endurance benefits, and even fat loss at the conclusion of my three week run. It’s a noticeable difference when you get the real thing so you have to go to a trusted source. I mean it is not like a massive increase in energy, but I would say, if I had to estimate, you would get probably at least a 20% increase in stamina, which would make you be able to push harder or perhaps be more efficient , in terms of heart rate and expenditure, during endurance competitions.

As I mentioned, I do not fear the cancer in short term use and other studies Ive looked at actually show that it is cancer protective. I know people who have taken it for months on end. Personally I would not do that - but a few weeks a few times per year, is what I’m planning to do going forward.

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JimGainz said:

As a senior member here I appreciate and welcome your opinion.
I posted here in the therapeutic use of anabolics forum because that is exactly what a low dose Dbol cycle is -a therapeutic dose. most meathead gym-bros would use 3-5x times the dose I used.

Ben Johnson’s steroid cycle was well-documented in various articles from 1989. Here is one summarizing the hearing in the LA Times from 1989 which states his 3 on 3 off repeat Dbol cycle - where he later switched to Winstrol. THE BEN JOHNSON STEROID INQUIRY : Coach: Johnson Used Steroids Since '81 : Francis Claims Sprinter Chose to Take Drugs

i read in another article somewhere that low dose Dbol was chosen by his coach for recovery and to increase strength. But yes, as you mentioned, Winstrol was eventually favored by speed athletes due to being a better compound for that purpose.

There are many men here, like me, for whom testosterone never provides optimal feelings or health. For me, I was constantly chasing HCT and estrogen. Adding nandrolone to the mix was great but there is an upper limit to how much one can use before sides set in - especially with testosterone.

my experiment proved that in 3 weeks, I could gain more mass and strength on 10 mg/ day Dbol than taking 300mg of total androgens weekly (Test, nandrolone, maybe some primo,) and feel way better on it. To me that is a win. Probably safer to do short term reasonably dosed orals than long term blasts.
btw - there is a TRT clinic that claims they use Dbol in the protocol. I’ve never used them but I did find one.

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JimGainz said:

I have been tracking this whole cardarine thing since 2017 and have been reluctant to pull the switch because of that cancer scare. First of all the doses that were used in those rats were actually close to human levels. The human equivalent dose ranges from about 45 mg to 75 mg which is not that far off from what a lot of bodybuilders take which is around 25 mg. That being said, based on some other research and tracking things on forums, looking at the clinical trials, there has never been a reported side effect in humans. In fact, to the contrary, short term, lower doses seem to provide enormous benefits in lipid modulation as well as energy.

I was only taking 10 mg per day and I noticed a difference in a few days in terms of overall endurance benefits, and even fat loss at the conclusion of my three week run. It’s a noticeable difference when you get the real thing so you have to go to a trusted source. I mean it is not like a massive increase in energy, but I would say, if I had to estimate, you would get probably at least a 20% increase in stamina, which would make you be able to push harder or perhaps be more efficient , in terms of heart rate and expenditure, during endurance competitions.

As I mentioned, I do not fear the cancer in short term use and other studies Ive looked at actually show that it is cancer protective. I know people who have taken it for months on end. Personally I would not do that - but a few weeks a few times per year, is what I’m planning to do going forward.

Click to expand...