Low SHBG guys Free T/ is TT a worthless test in general?

Gianluca Bonetti · Feb 22, 2017

I just had my follow up with the great Doc. Saya yesterday, speaking about TT and free T, I had always believed that to achieve the benefits of TRT the number to keep in check would be TT, and low SHBG guys have in general this trouble and needs more feq inj to keep TT up, Doc actually told me that is the Free T, the bioavailable form of T in your blood that do all the good things, I did not have more time to speak with Doc regard this nor I thought about any other questions at the moment, so if free T is what most important why bother with TT? guessing just to find out how much binds to SHBG?

I do 0,35ml 3 x week my TT is around 800 and my fee T above normal, 30 pg/ml on LabCorp scale of 8.7 25.1

johndoesmith · Feb 22, 2017

Gianluca Bonetti said:
I just had my follow up with the great Doc. Saya yesterday, speaking about TT and free T, I had always believed that to achieve the benefits of TRT the number to keep in check would be TT, and low SHBG guys have in general this trouble and needs more feq inj to keep TT up, Doc actually told me that is the Free T, the bioavailable form of T in your blood that do all the good things, I did not have more time to speak with Doc regard this nor I thought about any other questions at the moment, so if free T is what most important why bother with TT? guessing just to find out how much binds to SHBG?

I do 0,35ml 3 x week my TT is around 800 and my fee T above normal, 30 pg/ml on LabCorp scale of 8.7 25.1

Imo free test is important, but so is SHBG, and consequently total test.

SHBG isn't just something that binds up testosterone making it useless, it is a carrier protein, which helps move a lipid soluble hormone in the aqueous blood. SHBG is important, and so is maintaining it not too high and not too low. Both are problems, we need hormones to be at goldilocks levels.

More likely than not, there wasn't time to explain this, or I am entirely wrong on this proposition.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that low SHBG means you will eliminate your testosterone much quicker than a guy with a decent SHBG level. That is the reasoning for more frequent injections.

The free hormone hypothesis states that free testosterone does the "work" but there is also the free hormone transport hypothesis, which states that the pool of free hormone is not the entire determinant of intracellular hormone level, and that the uptake of hormone from blood can be the determinant. It also states that it isn't just free hormone that is taken into cells but that some can come from the TOTAL pool, as opposed to the free hormone pool.

This is a rather complex topic. If you're interested, there's a 40 page paper on the intricacies of this topic. It's incredibly technical.

Gianluca Bonetti · Feb 23, 2017

thank you Jhon, could we say that for low SHBG guys TT should not a number to look at? example my TT is within normal range but free T is at 30, over the normal range, could we say that actually my Testosterone level is higher then normal physiologic? of course based on LabCorp numbers, where can I find these 40 pages?

thanks

johndoesmith said:
Imo free test is important, but so is SHBG, and consequently total test.

SHBG isn't just something that binds up testosterone making it useless, it is a carrier protein, which helps move a lipid soluble hormone in the aqueous blood. SHBG is important, and so is maintaining it not too high and not too low. Both are problems, we need hormones to be at goldilocks levels.

More likely than not, there wasn't time to explain this, or I am entirely wrong on this proposition.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that low SHBG means you will eliminate your testosterone much quicker than a guy with a decent SHBG level. That is the reasoning for more frequent injections.

The free hormone hypothesis states that free testosterone does the "work" but there is also the free hormone transport hypothesis, which states that the pool of free hormone is not the entire determinant of intracellular hormone level, and that the uptake of hormone from blood can be the determinant. It also states that it isn't just free hormone that is taken into cells but that some can come from the TOTAL pool, as opposed to the free hormone pool.

This is a rather complex topic. If you're interested, there's a 40 page paper on the intricacies of this topic. It's incredibly technical.

Vince Carter · Feb 24, 2017

If you're low SHBG you're Free T is going to be over 3%, wayyyyyyy over lab ranges anytime you pull it. This is good, and Dr Saya's statement is totally correct that Free T is where it's at, so to speak. The remainder is bound up and not biologically active so in theory the better your Free T is the better off you'll be. Conversely someone with an SHBG of 30 or 40 will have quiet a chore getting their FT to even approach the max lab value. The old double edged sword is in play as far as good and bad, the individual just has to tailor to how their body reacts.
Now that I'm much more experienced, I don't test FT but once per year, only TT and that's just an advisory thing for me.

Gianluca Bonetti · Feb 24, 2017

thank you Vince, I feel I would do the same just reverse, I would test TT just once a year, I always thought being a low SHBG guy would mean having a disadvantage and more challenging to keep a good level up , so at the end, if i understand correctly, being a low SHBG guy is actually better

Vince Carter said:
If you're low SHBG you're Free T is going to be over 3%, wayyyyyyy over lab ranges anytime you pull it. This is good, and Dr Saya's statement is totally correct that Free T is where it's at, so to speak. The remainder is bound up and not biologically active so in theory the better your Free T is the better off you'll be. Conversely someone with an SHBG of 30 or 40 will have quiet a chore getting their FT to even approach the max lab value. The old double edged sword is in play as far as good and bad, the individual just has to tailor to how their body reacts.
Now that I'm much more experienced, I don't test FT but once per year, only TT and that's just an advisory thing for me.

Vince Carter · Feb 24, 2017

I think its better actually, I'd rather be low than high or even normal. My opinion though is that low SHBG get's a bad rep from those that don't or are unwilling to work with it and follow a protocol with a higher chance of success.

Gianluca Bonetti · Feb 24, 2017

very interesting,

eli · Feb 25, 2017

Please look at my Trestolone thread

Gianluca Bonetti · Mar 1, 2017

Making some research, actually most LOW SHBG guys don't really feel well nor building more muscle or strength as suppose to since high FT, mostly everyone complains not to feel the Tesosterone, I think SHBG has a role as well,

Vince Carter said:
I think its better actually, I'd rather be low than high or even normal. My opinion though is that low SHBG get's a bad rep from those that don't or are unwilling to work with it and follow a protocol with a higher chance of success.

Will Brink · Mar 1, 2017

johndoesmith said:
Imo free test is important, but so is SHBG, and consequently total test.

SHBG isn't just something that binds up testosterone making it useless, it is a carrier protein, which helps move a lipid soluble hormone in the aqueous blood. SHBG is important, and so is maintaining it not too high and not too low. Both are problems, we need hormones to be at goldilocks levels.

More likely than not, there wasn't time to explain this, or I am entirely wrong on this proposition.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that low SHBG means you will eliminate your testosterone much quicker than a guy with a decent SHBG level. That is the reasoning for more frequent injections.

The free hormone hypothesis states that free testosterone does the "work" but there is also the free hormone transport hypothesis, which states that the pool of free hormone is not the entire determinant of intracellular hormone level, and that the uptake of hormone from blood can be the determinant. It also states that it isn't just free hormone that is taken into cells but that some can come from the TOTAL pool, as opposed to the free hormone pool.

This is a rather complex topic. If you're interested, there's a 40 page paper on the intricacies of this topic. It's incredibly technical.

I also seem to recall that per usual, it's not a simple as FT doing the work, and bound T doing nothing. There's some weak interaction between bound T and the AR. Then there's albumin bound T. Although much is known, there's a surprising amount yet to be elucidated and much of what was considered hard black/white facts, falling away one at a time into grey.

Vince Carter · Mar 1, 2017

Gianluca Bonetti said:
Making some research, actually most LOW SHBG guys don't really feel well nor building more muscle or strength as suppose to since high FT, mostly everyone complains not to feel the Tesosterone, I think SHBG has a role as well,

Myfeel
My impression though from being a low SHBG guy is that sure a few may not feel well, or anything, but that can be spread across normal and high SHBG, too. But most cases experienced opinion is that low SHBG requires a certain protocol and guys are not following it due to poor Dr's, or an unwillingness to work with it, i.e., more frequent injections.

CoastWatcher · Mar 1, 2017

Vince Carter said:
Myfeel
My impression though from being a low SHBG guy is that sure a few may not feel well, or anything, but that can be spread across normal and high SHBG, too. But most cases experienced opinion is that low SHBG requires a certain protocol and guys are not following it due to poor Dr's, or an unwillingness to work with it, i.e., more frequent injections.

Low SHBG, which I have, is a variable, at times a challenging one, that has to be factored into my approach to TRT. As Vince Carter noted, it doesn't have to result in the failure of a TRT protocol.

Gianluca Bonetti · Mar 1, 2017

do anyone of you believe in the association of low SHBG to other factors? from peaktesosteorne.com I found an article about SHBG, things like sleep apnea and high prolactin also are associated with low SHBG, now it turns out I have a mild sleep apnea and I found my prolactin at 18.2 ng/ml on a scale 4.0/15.2 LabCorp, not quiet sure at which degree could these impact SHBG which is 12,5 nmol/L on a scale 16.5/ 59.5 though, I'm now on 0.35ml x week and honestly didn't really make any difference from 2 to 3 inj x week, maybe daily would, but as I mentioned in another post the peak and valley I mostly experienced was due to HCG which I now do 5 x week and seems to have solved the problem

Gianluca Bonetti · Mar 1, 2017

if I understand well, high FT alone won't do the job, there has to be a balance btw FT TT and SHBG

Will Brink said:
I also seem to recall that per usual, it's not a simple as FT doing the work, and bound T doing nothing. There's some weak interaction between bound T and the AR. Then there's albumin bound T. Although much is known, there's a surprising amount yet to be elucidated and much of what was considered hard black/white facts, falling away one at a time into grey.

Gianluca Bonetti · Mar 1, 2017

absolutely beside low SHBG could be hiding something else

Vince Carter said:
Myfeel
My impression though from being a low SHBG guy is that sure a few may not feel well, or anything, but that can be spread across normal and high SHBG, too. But most cases experienced opinion is that low SHBG requires a certain protocol and guys are not following it due to poor Dr's, or an unwillingness to work with it, i.e., more frequent injections.

Vince Carter · Mar 2, 2017

Gianluca Bonetti said:
do anyone of you believe in the association of low SHBG to other factors? from peaktesosteorne.com I found an article about SHBG, things like sleep apnea and high prolactin also are associated with low SHBG, now it turns out I have a mild sleep apnea and I found my prolactin at 18.2 ng/ml on a scale 4.0/15.2 LabCorp, not quiet sure at which degree could these impact SHBG which is 12,5 nmol/L on a scale 16.5/ 59.5 though, I'm now on 0.35ml x week and honestly didn't really make any difference from 2 to 3 inj x week, maybe daily would, but as I mentioned in another post the peak and valley I mostly experienced was due to HCG which I now do 5 x week and seems to have solved the problem

I've no idea how Lee Myer has become an authority on the subject, his forum makes my head hurt and he runs straight to diabetes, prediabetes, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, just about every scary condition for low SHBG. Consider this...his methods work so well (HEAVY sarcasm) that he had to get under Dr Saya's care and have his site sponsored by the same.

eli · Mar 2, 2017

My endo said he has a lot of patients who genetically have low shbg, nothing else wrong. I and a few others on this board are some of those. I wish the med industry comes up with pills that either boost or lower it, or make testosterone that doesn't bind to shbg?

Gianluca Bonetti · Mar 2, 2017

I get it, I'm still curious once I fixed sleep apnea and lowered prolactin to check on SHBG again

Vince Carter said:
I've no idea how Lee Myer has become an authority on the subject, his forum makes my head hurt and he runs straight to diabetes, prediabetes, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, just about every scary condition for low SHBG. Consider this...his methods work so well (HEAVY sarcasm) that he had to get under Dr Saya's care and have his site sponsored by the same.

CSI007 · Mar 2, 2017

At what value do you guys consider someone low? 30? 20? 15?

Gianluca Bonetti · Mar 2, 2017

LabCorp scale is between 16.5 / 59.5 nmol/L so below that is probably considered low, although I'm not really educated on the subject too much

Low SHBG guys Free T/ is TT a worthless test in general?

New Member

Member

New Member

Banned

New Member

Banned

New Member

Active Member

New Member

Member

Banned

Moderator

New Member

New Member

New Member

Banned

Active Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Share this page

Sponsors

Online statistics