1. #1

    Any studies or data on the number of men that fail to achieve success with topical testosterone?

    My google-fu is failing today.
    I read this alot on EM that topical T gels just do not work for some or it is implied many men.
    Other than the experience of a few members here do we have any data backing this?

    My motive for asking is I have only been on a T-gel TRT protocol for 3 weeks and I have a blood draw scheduled in a month. I am trying to gather info and get smarter so if I need to ask my doc about testosterone cypionate intramuscular or what I have learned about here the 1 to every 3.5 days injections in the fatty tissues I will be a bit more educated.

    Only 3 weeks in using the testim 50 which I believe is one of the weakest treatments I have already started to notice some changes with my body and they are not all good.

    10# weight gain in 20 days with no changes to diet or exersize is way out of the ordinary for me. I can only blame this weight gain on the T-gel so something is happening. Morning wood one or twice a week is something I have not had in 14 years. I have noticed no other effects but it is very early in my treatment.

    Dang another wall of text sorry. Anyone have some good study data out there on T-gels?
    Last edited by FeelingLost; 02-16-2017 at 01:07 PM. Reason: spel'n

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  3. #2
    Just a lot of anecdotal evidence, backed up by bloodwork, that topical T (Gels and creams) either fail to achieve desired T levels, or work fine for a while at first and then loose effectiveness after a few weeks or few months.

    You can get your own blood work at www.discountedlabs.com so you do not have to speculate.

  4. #3
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Hi ERO thanks. I haven't needed discountedlab yet but it is nice to know they are there.
    My current PCP has a LabCorp right in his office so should I need discountedlabs services it should be very convient.

    I am trying to follow Nelson's 10 commandments on TRT by going slow, give my body time to adjust, and only make one change at a time. I truely believe in this advice and coming from an engineering background myself it makes perfect sense.
    Last edited by FeelingLost; 02-16-2017 at 01:57 PM. Reason: spel'n

  5. #4
    The stuff is prescribed like crazy and there are a lot of men on it. I would think it works for a bunch of men. Most you read about in the web are "complainers" like myself.

    The morning wood is a good thing!

    If you follow my thread you will see that when I started to inject and get my T levels up I gained about 10lbs. It is SLOWLY coming off now (The addition of Berberine?) but it's damn near impossible to sustain a drop over the course of two weeks were as before I could drop 2 to 5lbs and hold it. Now it's drop 2 to 5lbs and gain most of it back in 2 days. :/

    Any change in libido? Mine is off the charts crazy and it faded for about a week but this weeks been crazy. Every night sex with my wife. She is loving it but erections are still troublesome and with the addition of Cialis climaxing is difficult too.

  6. #5
    Yes, wait 4-6 weeks, do blood work, and then change your protocol if needed. Always change just one variable at a time.

    Big Pharma pushes their branded T Gel which is one reason why a lot of guys are on it, at least to start. You just see a ton of guys on the TRT boards that switched to injections when the topicals did not work, or stopped working.

    Also beware the Doc that thinks if you get to, say a 500 Total T you are now 'cured' of Low T and should not complain. Better TRT docs typically try to get their guys into the upper quartile of the normal range. Think of it as getting an 'A' on your report card instead of a 'C.'

  7. #6
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSI007 View Post
    snip...

    Any change in libido? Mine is off the charts crazy and it faded for about a week but this weeks been crazy. Every night sex with my wife. She is loving it but erections are still troublesome and with the addition of Cialis climaxing is difficult too.
    No change in libido although I do catch myself watching women a bit more when out shopping.
    But with that said I don't think I am on TRT for the same reasons most here are using it.

    @63 I had pretty much gave up on life, was depressed suffering from mild anxiety and having panic attacks, shortterm memory gone, feeling apathetic, seeing no future or reason to live yet I am happly married 33yrs with two wonderful grandchildren 6 and 3, no financial issues.
    I retired at 55 by choice and spent the next 5 years doing my bucket list. All outdoor high energy activities. At 61 I sat in my big comfy chair and lost all desire to leave it.

    My PCP could find nothing wrong with me physically. He ran a crapload of tests and had me on the antidepressant Lexapro an SSRI. The only measurement in my blood out of wack was my T lvl at 173 ng/dL. I asked him if we could stop all other treatments and try to bring my T back up ~500 and see what happens. He said yes and here I am on a forum looking for support and advice although I don't think there are many here with my problem, thank god. OK that is not true we all have low T ;-)
    Last edited by FeelingLost; 02-16-2017 at 05:13 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post
    No change in libido although I do catch myself watching women a bit more when out shopping.
    But with that said I don't think I am on TRT for the same reasons most here are using it.

    @63 I had pretty much gave up on life, was depressed suffering from mild anxiety and having panic attacks, shortterm memory gone, feeling apathetic, seeing no future or reason to live yet I am happly married 33yrs with two wonderful grandchildren 6 and 3, no financial issues.
    I retired at 55 by choice and spent the next 5 years doing my bucket list. All outdoor high energy activities. At 61 I sat in my big comfy chair and lost all desire to leave it.

    My PCP could find nothing wrong with me physically. He ran a crapload of tests and had me on the antidepressant Lexapro an SSRI. The only measurement in my blood out of wack want my T lvl at 173 ng/dL. I asked him if we could stop all other treatments and try to bring my T back up ~500 and see what happens. He said yes and here I am on a forum looking for support and advice although I don't think there are many here with my problem. OK that is not true we all have low T.

    That was pretty much me too but add no sex drive, ED and loss of penile sensitivity and add in hot flashes and muscle aches and joint pain. During my year long quest to raise my T through other means, I can tell you when the natural levels began to slip. Short term memory, having to find words to complete sentences etc. It sucked.

  9. #8
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    @CSI007, So do you have your blood numbers dialed in? It sounds like things are looking up for you and your wife seems to be enjoying the added attention as well. Well done myfriend.

    I am not sure if my wife will be as willing. Back in my early 50s I developed ED but at the time my wife mid 40's was going thru early menopause. Sex hurt, from what I could tell it hurt a lot even with foreplay and lubs. My ED and her menopause hitting about the same time we just kind of forgot about sex and it did not effect our relationship at all. We were raising our daughter and both of our careers were peaking.
    If T gives me my mind and will to live back I am not sure what or how I will deal with any horniness.
    Who'd of thunk horny-ness would be a negative side effect of any medical treatment, haha
    Last edited by FeelingLost; 02-16-2017 at 05:48 PM. Reason: spel'n

  10. #9
    This study that Nelson posted seems to show that Androgel just doesn't do it for most guys:

    Most Men on Androgel and Testim Stop Using Them


  11. #10
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    I really believe injections are the way to go. But TRT is not a cure for all issues. I think you need something to motivate you. I'm 62 widow and have a very good sex life, I'm attracted to women and like dating. I do use a good nitric oxide stack and Cialis.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post
    @CSI007, So do you have your blood numbers dialed in? It sounds like things are looking up for you and your wife seems to be enjoying the added attention as well. Well done myfriend.

    I am not sure if my wife will be as willing. Back in my early 50s I developed ED but at the time my wife mid 40's was going thru early menopause. Sex hurt, from what I could tell it hurt a lot even with foreplay and lubs. My ED and her menopause hitting about the same time we just kind of forgot about sex and it did not effect our relationship at all. We were raising our daughter and both of our careers were peaking.
    If T gives me my mind and will to live back I am not sure what or how I will deal with any horniness.
    Who'd of thunk horny-ness would be a negative side effect of any medical treatment, haha
    I'm not sure if I am dialed in yet. I had one test since I started and the value was approaching 800 after 6 weeks. About 2 weeks ago I had an issue with hot flashes again. It last a few days but has since gone.

    Besides my crazy libido I am feeling really good right now and have been for a while now. My memory is improving. It's nice to have a conversation with someone without stumbling over a simple word like "sidewalk" or "airplane" etc.

    I am having an issue getting my E2 up to a value closer to ideal. I was so worried about high E2 when I started but with me anyway that has not been the case. I will get blood work done again soon and report back in my thread so we know if things are still good to go value wise.

  13. #12
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCat View Post
    This study that Nelson posted seems to show that Androgel just doesn't do it for most guys:

    Most Men on Androgel and Testim Stop Using Them
    Thanks for the link HarryCat. It was an interesting read. Not a lot of reasons why folks stop or if they switch to injections or just wanted to see if T was for them.

  14. #13
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    I really believe injections are the way to go. But TRT is not a cure for all issues. I think you need something to motivate you. I'm 62 widow and have a very good sex life, I'm attracted to women and like dating. I do use a good nitric oxide stack and Cialis.
    Hi Vince,
    I will probably go with injections if it turns out getting my T lvls back up to some value helps my condition. I have some small signs of hope which is more than I had on antidepressants.

    I hope I can get my T lvl up enough to get the old me back.

    I think you need something to motivate you. -Vince
    This should be enough?
    Last edited by FeelingLost; 02-17-2017 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spel'n

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    Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post
    Hi Vince,
    I will probably go with injections if it turns out getting my T lvls back up to some value helps my contition. I have some small signs of hope which is more than I had on antidepressants.

    I have to be honest some of the stuff the guys here post about is a bit scary for me.
    Excessive T leads to an overproduction of E2 requiring another drug to reduce E2 oops take too much of that and you get an E2 crash.

    I hope I can get my T lvl up enough to get the old me back and i will be happy. I don't want my T injections and rebalancing drugs to be the center or focus of my life.
    @FeelingLost I can totally relate to your post that some of the posts scare the heck out of me as well. I am someone that avoids taking RX of any kind and thank goodness have not had the need for them up to this point. I have been debating using TRT for quite some time but worry that I will find myself having to take a med to control E2 then have to go for blood donations if blood gets too thick then need to inject HCG because the balls are shrinking. And then you see posts about people having erection issues. I wonder did they have those issues before T or is T contributing. Anyway, just felt the urge to reply since I completely relate to your concern. Definitely love this forum as there are so many helpful people and tons of information.

  16. #15
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post






    This should be enough?
    I agree, grandkids can be a great motivator, also girlfriends.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  17. #16
    Gels get a bad rep on the various forums however they work very well for the majority of men. Since these men are using gels succesfully they don't have a reason to post on forums. It is the small percentage of men who have not had success that post. Gels are by far the most widely used form of TRT with most men enjoying great success with them.

  18. #17
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    The #1 reason I don't like gels, contaminating my girlfriend and grandkids. I told my TRT doctor, I would never use gels.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  19. #18
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    The #1 reason I don't like gels, contaminating my girlfriend and grandkids. I told my TRT doctor, I would never use gels.
    I do worry about cross contamination with two grandkids in the house daily. I could not adopt Nelson's recommended forearm and oblique gel technique for fear of that. I live in sweatpants and carhart 100% cotton tee shirts. Keeping the gel in the should area is the safest for me.

    Vince from your last blood work
    https://www.excelmale.com/showthread...w-LabCorp-Labs
    do they even make a T-gel than could get you to or maintain an 1183 ng/dL T level?

    If I may ask do you feel you need to be at the top of the T range for all ages of men or did you just want to see what that felt like?

    I hope my questions are not too personal, if so I apologize I just have so many question and you and I are about the same age so I have kind of focused on you when questions come up. How TRT effect a 25 year old and 60 year old has to be different doesn't it?
    Again I apologize if I have overstepped.

  20. #19
    Junior Member FeelingLost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnt View Post
    @FeelingLost I can totally relate to your post that some of the posts scare the heck out of me as well. I am someone that avoids taking RX of any kind and thank goodness have not had the need for them up to this point. I have been debating using TRT for quite some time but worry that I will find myself having to take a med to control E2 then have to go for blood donations if blood gets too thick then need to inject HCG because the balls are shrinking. And then you see posts about people having erection issues. I wonder did they have those issues before T or is T contributing. Anyway, just felt the urge to reply since I completely relate to your concern. Definitely love this forum as there are so many helpful people and tons of information.
    Hi JohnT thank you for your comment. HaHa I though I had edited those comments out before anyone read them. I was worried it would derail the topic. But I am thankful for your post we think alike. I don't want my TRT to be the center of my life or something I have to think about all day long.

  21. #20

  22. #21
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    I used the patch for awhile til it burned my skin,felt good with them. Then switched to gel and my levels plummeted. Ive been coasting along natural for a few years now. My urologist set me up to inject will allow me to do them myself (only wants me to do the every 2 week route) havent brought myself to start injecting yet though..

  23. #22
    Injecting every 2 weeks is a guaranteed road to failure. Inject smaller amounts every 3.5 days at a minimum. Most of us here inject with insulin syringes, which is nearly painless and it takes maybe 5 minutes, tops.

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